20317 Mon Jun 24 13:49:38 -0700 2002 7 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 70090 I don't know the classic bars of this city, but I'm having to write something about vodkas and want to highlight a bar with an excellent selection and where one can perhaps get a classically-done martini. Are there any Russian-themed bars in this town (in the style of Pravda in New York)? Mon Jun 24 13:49:38 -0700 2002 0 Giacosa 1 70104 Russian Renaissance (Geary, near ~16th Ave.) is the only one I know of, but there may well be others. There are those, however, who would argue that a 'classically-done martini' is never made with vodka. You might want to check out some of the opinions in the thread linked below. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/19294#64018 Mon Jun 24 15:19:38 -0700 2002 70090 0 Tom Hilton 2 70106 Of course you are right! I hadn't even thought of that. In fact, I am someone who takes gin martinis, but it seems everyone else I know has switched to vodka. What do you think is a classic vodka drink? A gimlet? Mon Jun 24 15:38:45 -0700 2002 70104 0 Giacosa 3 70107 I think gimlets are another originally-gin drink (hence, 'vodka gimlet'). I'm not sure what the earliest vodka-based cocktails were, and the brief bit of Google research I just did didn't give me much of an answer. It's an interesting question, and I'll dig around a little more and see what I can find. Mon Jun 24 16:30:12 -0700 2002 70106 0 Tom Hilton 3 70111 Screwdrivers, black russians, greyhounds are all vodka drinks. I think the jars by the entrance at Thanh Long are flavored vodkas. There was a bar called Fusion(?) on 2nd at South Park that used to specialize in them. I'm partial to the pepper and citrus ones. My favorites are the tiny shots at the Russian festival in February. Martinis are made with gin. That other cocktail is vodka with a touch of vermouth and maybe a twist or an olive. I don't object to creative recipes, but changing the name to mean something else is an irritant to many people who drink martinis. It's like ordering a cheeseburger without cheese. Blondie's is known for all kinds of "martinis" including (ugh) chocolate ones. You could probably get some nasty vodka recipes from the (very friendly)Blavod folks. It doesn't taste bad, but I couldn't stand the idea of drinking something black. Mon Jun 24 18:13:46 -0700 2002 70106 0 Windy 3 70129 A lot of the classic bars have shut down, and their knowledgeable bartenders gone into retirement. Without getting into the Vodka vs. Gin martini debate (I agree with the Gin contingent), I would suggest going to the Orbit Room at Market and Guerrero to find all-knowing bartenders who can tell you what the classic Vodka drinks are, and how to make them. This is not a classic bar, but its bartenders are excellent. You'll find that many of the vodka drinks began life as gin drinks (e.g., a Vodka Collins is basically a Gin Fizz with Vodka, etc...) because Vodka wasn't very common in the heyday of the cocktail. When Vodka began getting more currency after WWII, a lot of the existing drink recipes were adapted to it... Mon Jun 24 19:28:11 -0700 2002 70106 0 Zach Georgopoulos 3 70141 Zach hit upon it when he noted that vodka wasn't a part of American drinking back when all these "classic" cocktails came into being. So perhaps the closest we can get to a classic for vodka is one that an early distributor of vodka, Heublein, invented in order to promote the liquor to the American public: The Moscow Mule. This is not a cocktail, but a long drink - basically a vodka rickey made with ginger beer. A big shot of vodka, a squeeze of lime, and ice, topped off with ginger beer. I like it with a dash of bitters too. I know that Hotwired's cocktail guru Paul Harrington (author of the wonderful book, _Cocktail_) has designed his own vodka cocktail, called Drink Without A Name. You can look it up on his web site, below. I've never tried it. My partner Holly's standard cocktail is a vodka drink based on the vodka gimlet, called a Lime Drop - vodka, fresh lime juice, simple syrup, and a little campari (and cointreau, I think, by the drop). I guess that's also like a Lemon Drop, which is a vodka drink that was borne of the "shot" craze in the 80s (alongwith Sex on the Beach, the Fuzzy navel, etc) but that translates well to a cocktail. Though perhaps the most classic vodka cocktail of all is the Cosmopolitan. I've not heard of it made with anything but vodka. It's certainly not one of my favorites, but Paul Harrington likes it a lot, and states its family history as "a descendant of the Cold War's Cape Codder and the respectable sibling of the Kamikaze shooter." Check out the hotwired site, and Harrington's book, for tons of information about cocktails and their history. --p Link: http://hotwired.lycos.com/cocktail/ Mon Jun 24 20:59:48 -0700 2002 70106 0 patrick 1 70121 My favorite bar of the moment happens to specialize in vodka drinks. The Paragon bar at the Clarmont Hotel in Berkeley makes great drinks and has a pretty good selection of vodkas from around the world. I was never really a fan of chocolate martinis but the Claremont makes a darn good one. They use a Russian chocolate flavored vodka that is quite good and very clean tasting. Not the overly sweet, gooey concoction that many may be familiar with. There is also a Paragon in the city, although I haven't been there yet. Mon Jun 24 19:03:44 -0700 2002 70090 0 tedm