202252 Mon Jul 07 08:37:21 -0700 2003 28 18 Manhattan 0 1078309 We will be coming to NYC in August. Any information or recommendations for any of Mario Batali's restaurants would be appreciated. Thanks. Mon Jul 07 08:37:21 -0700 2003 0 southshoresuzy 1 1078312 Here's an unpopular view: I don't get it. I've been to Babbo, Lupa and Po (back in the day). Babbo and Lupa were fine, Po cramped and unexciting. But none of them fill me with desire. Hell, someone got be a Babbo gift certificate for my birthday, and I was underwhelmed. So it's not even an issue of the cost; it's just that I don't think any of it is great enough to justify the cult. I guess if I paid any attention to Food Network I'd get more excited. But the food by itself doesn't have me that excited. Mon Jul 07 09:41:58 -0700 2003 1078309 0 xavier 2 1078315 Wow. That is an unpopular view (not one that I share) . . . if I were recommending a current Batali restaurant (he no longer has a hand in Po, though it has actually gotten better since he left), I would choose Lupa, especially in the summer. I love Babbo, but it strikes me as more of a fall/winter type restaurant. Lupa has great pastas ($10-13) and entrees at fantastic prices ($15 to $18). Also, a phenomenal and well-priced wine list . . . If you can't get a reservation to Lupa, I would recommend just going at an off-time (pre 7:15 or post 10:00), and you should be able to get in without much of a wait. Mon Jul 07 10:08:10 -0700 2003 1078312 0 DC 2 1078316 I haven't been to Lupa as yet but I feel the same way as you about his other restaurants and without any interest in starting a flame war or arguments, I was just glad to see a similar opinion. If the poster is interested in additonal choices besides mario batali places, I'd be glad to make suggestions. Mon Jul 07 10:09:56 -0700 2003 1078312 0 djk 3 1078369 Yes, any suggestions would be appreciated. We are staying at the Times Square Westin and I'd kind of find restaurants not too far away. Thanks Mon Jul 07 12:38:20 -0700 2003 1078316 0 southshoresuzy 4 1078394 Esca is the closest to Times Square but in my opinion is also the least appealing. Unless money is absolutely no object (and I'm talking $100+ a person), you will feel a little underserved at Esca. In order to do it right you really have to get crudo (like Italian sashimi), pasta, and whole roasted fish. Aside from that there are a whole bunch of other dishes and dessert is actually very good. Babbo and Lupa on the other hand are both top 10 in NYC in my opinion, and worth both the cab ride and the wait. Mon Jul 07 14:31:17 -0700 2003 1078369 0 Craig 5 1078432 As I have mentioned before on this board, I was not bowled over by Esca. I can't remember what appetizers we had, which means that they were totally unmemorable. But I do know that our main course was the whole branzino (for 2) baked in a salt crust. While there was nothing really wrong with it, the portions were skimpy, and we have had much tastier branzino elsewhere. If it's Italian you are looking for, in the theater district, there is Trattoria Trecolori. It's a pleasant, casual place with nicely prepared homestyle food at moderate prices. For upscale Italian, we like I Trulli, on E. 27th St., btw Park Av. S. & Lexington Av. The food is delicious, there's a very good wine list, service is excellent, and they have a lovely rear garden which is wonderful when the weather is warm as it is now. Mon Jul 07 15:58:42 -0700 2003 1078394 0 RGR 6 1078482 I too do not like Esca. I also had a very bad experienced with the service there and vowed never to return. But, I just love Lupa. I've been to Trecolori and think it's just okay. Not bad, but definitely not great. I think it's the service that makes you go back there more than the food quality and maybe their tiramisu which is to die for. Tue Jul 08 08:33:52 -0700 2003 1078432 0 Sasquatch 7 1078510 Yes, the service at Trecolori is excellent, particularly when it comes to getting out efficiently pre-theater. Since I have not been to Lupa, I can't make a comparison about the food. We have always found Trecolori's pasta dishes to be very nicely prepared and tasty. And you are absolutely correct about the tiramisu -- it's sensational, one of the best renditions around! Tue Jul 08 11:44:34 -0700 2003 1078482 0 RGR 2 1078343 I've only been to Esca, a couple years ago. We thoroughly enjoyed it. I've been told by many friends that Lupo kicks too. But every restaurant has bad nightts. In NYC, I consider Thurs-Sun bad nights almost everywhere. Mon Jul 07 11:15:07 -0700 2003 1078312 0 Fritz 2 1078363 On the other hand, what could possibly live up to that kind of hype? I bet your opinion is not that rare. To the original poster: Whatever you do, skip Otto, which serves pizza on a tough, chewy crust. Mon Jul 07 12:02:10 -0700 2003 1078312 0 scrittrice 3 1078418 But if you skip Otto, you'll miss the lardo bruschetta, olive oil gelato, gnocco fritto with tissue-thin prosciutto, mortadella panini and eyes-rolling-back-in-head delicious anchovies. One can have a brilliant (and reasonably priced) meal without having any pizza at all. Plus, the best Old Fashioned I've had in NYC, and that's saying a LOT. And after all the complaints, they've seemingly reformatted the crust of the pizza. I thought it was pretty great the last couple of times. Mon Jul 07 15:22:19 -0700 2003 1078363 0 Kat Kinsman 4 1078433 Yeah, what he said. Mon Jul 07 16:01:11 -0700 2003 1078418 0 Deb Van D 1 1078313 Do a search on Babbo, Lupa, Esca and Otto. All of these restaurants have been discussed extensively on the boards. Babbo is more high-end Italian food, Lupa is more (excellent) peasant fare in a more casual and inexpensive setting. Esca serves primarily fish, Otto is for pizza. Mon Jul 07 09:47:23 -0700 2003 1078309 0 Caitlin Wheeler 1 1078322 LUPA. Hands down is mine own favorite. I don't care for the hype. I don't care for the celebrity whom I have not met. I *DO* care for the top quality of food. It is finally a place that serves food fully seasoned without salt shakers on the table and with Great respect for the original flavor of what you are eating, instead of the usual drowning of sauce. Etc, etc, etc... Mon Jul 07 10:20:30 -0700 2003 1078309 0 Natasa Sevoleva 2 1078375 I like Lupa, although I am not one that thinks it the best deal out there for high quality Itialian in the city. Just note that the "no salt shakers" on the table is code for the chef tends to oversalt the food - particularly the meat. There have been a lot of heated discussions on this board about this. So, if you go, and partcularly if you don't like a lot of salt or on a salt limited diet, just consider this or,at minimum tell your server to ask the chef to hold the salt. Otherwise, enjoy. Mon Jul 07 13:05:25 -0700 2003 1078322 0 Faren 3 1078497 Hey Faren- I have always adored Lupa and was wondering what you thought were "the best deal out there for high quality Itialian in the city?" Tue Jul 08 10:49:55 -0700 2003 1078375 0 josh L 4 1078562 I know this will sound odd, but I think there are three places in Brooklyn that serve very interesting Italian food, for much less money - Al DI LA in Park Slope; Aliseo's on VAnderbilt in Propect Hts. and Locanda VIni olli (or maybe I have the order of this name reversed) - its in Clinton Hill on Gates. These three restaurants really remind me of eating in Italy - the food is very different from what you get at most, even excellent Italian restaurants, wine list at latter two really excellent and different and the atmosphere relaxed and firendly and prices are much, much gentler than at Babbo's or even the more "moderate" Lupa. DOn't get me wrong I enjoy both Babbo and Lupa (although at the latter I've learned to ask them on meat dishes to hold the salt, but I think if you did a blind taste test the three restaurants I mentioned would beat the other two. But even if you think not, I think value -wise the Brooklyn places win.I believe I see your posts on outer bourough board as well (yes?) so you're probably familiar with these. What do you think??? Tue Jul 08 15:51:13 -0700 2003 1078497 0 Faren 5 1078568 A Brooklyn spot differs greatly from a Manhattan spot. Tue Jul 08 16:18:51 -0700 2003 1078562 0 Scott Anafas 6 1078574 How so? We use tables, chairs, silverware etc. The prices of course are ususally gentler (and I understand costs are greater in Manhattan), but what do you mean by this? Tue Jul 08 16:46:06 -0700 2003 1078568 0 Faren 7 1078582 A Manhattan spot serves to "Manhattanites" as a Brooklyn spot serves to "Brooklynites". You find the Brooklyn places better than the Manhattan places. I may agree, if, and when I try your recommendations. Thus far, the only differences I found were in whom they choose to cater, and the prices they charge. A Brooklyn spot is *usually* a neighborhood/family place. That is GREAT! But *most* Manhattan places aren't. AND I could be very wrong, as I do not live in either Brooklyn or Manhattan, but work extensively in both. I ain't saying one is better than the other. I am saying that it depends on what you are looking for. Is it red sauce Italian? Is it a large plate of food? Is it nice service, despite the plate? Do you need to know the waitress by name as she greets you at the door and asks about your grandchildren while requesting to see photos? Each one of us decides this for ourselves. I have chosen, personally, to look solely for deliciousness. As an example, not to offend anybody, please, I was told about a certain Italian place in Bayside Queens. I tried it. It was what I can explain as a great amount of over sauced, Bland food on a large platter served as one individual course for one. I will refrain from commenting on quality and service, because there was none. I sadly have stumbled across these places in most of this section of Queens. Bayside/Flushing, Douglaston/Little Neck, etc. I ain't saying that there aren't good places to be found in these nabes, but *I* haven't been fortunate enough to find them. Or I just don't care for *that* style of Italian food, served that way. I won’t even mention Mario Batali’s comment on his show about the same, which made my wife laugh so hard she still comments to family and friends on it. I have found nirvana in "Mario's" places because I can actually pick anything on the menu and it is the best I've ever eaten. It is prepared the way I like and served the way I like. It also reminds me of, despite Mario's downplay, yes downplay, short of dismissal, that certain foods of LUPA and Babbo are from certain places of Italy that have been inhabited by Greeks for many, many, many years. I enjoy this immensely. When friends of mine came from DC asking for Greek food, I took them to LUPA. They went ballistic! They said, "I didn’t know Italian food was like THIS." Hey, It is what *I* am chow hounding over. I’m also glad to hear that you use tables, chairs, silverware etc, LOL! I meant nothing other than the above, kindly. Tue Jul 08 17:23:19 -0700 2003 1078574 0 Scott Anafas 8 1078586 I'm sorry if you had a bad experience in Bayside, but the two of the three places that Faren names that I have tried are two of the most authentic modern Italian places in New York. They are very, very far from gloppy red sauce. Tue Jul 08 17:50:20 -0700 2003 1078582 0 scrittrice 9 1078746 You just might be missing out on some great food, served in an elegant setting with absolutely nobody at the door to ask after your grandchildren, if you never venture into bklyn dining. I live and work in manhattan and often go to bklyn because there is just some sublime food to be found. And just because a place is in manhattan or gets a lot of hype doesn't make it the best. If you really are dedicated to looking for "deliciousness" as you say - some consideration for delving further might be in your best interests. Mario's restaurants and any other highly rec places all have their strengths and weaknesses - but I'd try Al Di La before I made Babbo my idea of heaven. Thu Jul 10 10:36:39 -0700 2003 1078586 0 djk 8 1078588 My initial answer was meant "tongue in cheek" - I took no offense. But while I live in Brooklyn my husband and I work in Manhattan and I eat as often there as in Brooklyn. Manhattan also has its neighborhood places. But the question was about value and intersting Italian - as a person who eats everywhere and almost everything - I think when you look at those two factors, Batali's very excellent restaurants can be rivalled by the ones I mentioned - all which are owned by Italians and cater to a sophisticated palate. Venture into Brooklyn - these places are in northern Brooklyn so are just a stone's throw over the bridge - and let us know on the outer bourough board what you think. Ci vediamo in Brooklyn! Tue Jul 08 18:03:11 -0700 2003 1078582 0 Faren 9 1079015 OK, yes if this discussion continues it should be on the Outer-boroughs. Just wanted to say that I, for one, will see you in Brooklyn. cheers. wray Sat Jul 12 17:06:28 -0700 2003 1078588 0 wrayb 1 1078344 I think Babbo is incredible, but, as you can see from many other posts on this thread, not everyone agrees with me. Otto is loads of fun. The pizzas are very good and the wine list will make your head explode (the menu is one page long, the wine list is three pages long in very very small type). Otto only takes reservations for parties of 6 or more. Mon Jul 07 11:19:18 -0700 2003 1078309 0 TK Baltimore 1 1078389 Keep in mind, Lupe is the single most talked about and reviewed rest. on this board. Therefore, it will attract the greatest amount of critics. While, I feel is it possible to be underwelmed (although, I personally think it is one of the best Italian rest.)I would also be suspicious of any review that trashes it. As the New Yorker said about Tomoe sushi, if you don't like it, you don't get it, or something like that. Mon Jul 07 14:08:01 -0700 2003 1078309 0 Shoeman 2 1078447 A thought about this post moved to the genereal board. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/293399#1605291 Mon Jul 07 17:01:29 -0700 2003 1078389 0 Stanley Stephan 2 1078491 "Lupe"?... Tue Jul 08 10:20:36 -0700 2003 1078389 0 TatyanaG