20083 Sun Jun 02 13:29:33 -0700 2002 13 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 68642 Last evening my experienced farmers markets friends read and discussed "Stanley Stephan's" Ferry Farmers Market previous review. Naturally, they agreed, disagreed, and had their own favorite vendors. They both came to the conclusion that the while the quality is high, the prices tend to reflect the San Francisco area and more affluent clientelle. Their recommendations were to try the South San Francisco Saturday market. This is on South Orange Boulevard of El Camino. The vendors are different from the Ferry Farmers Market. They were described as "more farmer, less commercial." Excellent prices, sometimes about half of the cost. Also highly recommended is the Serramonte (Daly City) Farmers Market on Thursday mornings. Here, a lot of the same vendors appear from the Ferry Farmers Market, but the prices have been reduced somewhat. One set of our friends buy all their fresh fish from one vendor here, as well as fruit and vegetables. Just thought I'd pass on some other alternatives to the Ferry Farmers Market which I can't wait to try. Sun Jun 02 13:29:33 -0700 2002 0 Ciaohound (Bob Savelli) 1 68644 Great suggestions. I hope some other people will pass on favorite farmer's markets and what specifically they like about them. Also, I hope no one brings the discussion down to the level of the yuppie scum farmer's market rant from a previous thread. While it was amusing, up to a point, it didn't offer any good information. Each market has it's own audience and specialty. If you like a market tell us why rather than dissing someone else's market. It's like comparing, say Chez Panisse to Shalimar. Each has their charms, but apples and oranges so to speak. Due to circumstances, my farmer's market roving has been limited in the past few years to the one nearest my home. I used to enjoy the Alemany market in times gone by. Before there was a Ferry Market, I'd drop in to the Marin Farmer's market which was along the same upscale lines. I still have some of my Hmoung embroidery from that market. Has anyone been to the market in Jack London Square? Any favorite vemdors there? Obviously I'm a farmer's market junkie. If I'm traveling, I always check to see what the local markets are like. It's the closest thing to seeing how the local people live and eat. One of my favorites was in Florence. At the bottom of my list is the market in Athens. After a charming write-up in an interview with Anthony Quinn, I was really unprepared for ... reality ... feathers flying, sacks of dried beans and rice next to meat vendors where the blood oozed out on the floor and into the sacks, uniced fish being, fishy.... let me say that it was the only time oversees that I was driven to eating at McDonald's. Oh, wait a minute... I'm dissing someone else's market. Sun Jun 02 13:57:17 -0700 2002 68642 0 Stanley Stephan 2 68648 Here's a suggestion: A Farmers Market meeting of Chowhounders to exchange lists, locations, vendors, special items we've purchased, etc. This would help those of us that are inexperienced at how and where to shop at Bay Area Farmers Markets. If we could do it early on a Friday evening, those of us that are willing could do a mini group shop on a Saturday at one of the Famer's Markets, or NOT! And this person's time permitting, I nominate our friend, the highly qualified and personable "Stanley Stephen" as moderator. Then again, I'm good at nominating people for stuff. I believe in letting the experts run the show, that's how us amateurs can learn. I'll be the scribe (ouch!) again if we can pull this off. Sun Jun 02 16:16:07 -0700 2002 68644 0 Ciaohound (Bob Savelli) 1 68645 Here are some more markets I like: Santa Cruz Wednesday Market 2:30 to 6:00 in downtown Santa Cruz -- lots of organic -- very high quality greens and fruit -- Swanton's strawberries -- really good fruit from Watsonville and the coast -- good baked goods Alemany Saturday Market -- cheaper than the Ferry Plaza Market, more Asian vegetables, some produce is lower quality than Ferry Plaza -- shop carefully Oakland Friday Market -- near Housewive's market -- excellent bread from a small SF bakery (I've mentioned this one before) -- noticed a tamale place there but didn't try them -- nice greens Serramonte Thursday Market -- really good organic Asian veggies at stand near the entrance -- nice fish -- some nice prepared products -- cheaper than Ferry Plaza and this time of year the quality is excellent Sun Jun 02 14:10:50 -0700 2002 68642 0 Nancy Berry 2 68830 The tamale stand at the Old Oakland friday market is a regular stop for us when we go. We usually get a pork tamale and then a bockwurst from the sausage guy, and some coffee from the place on the corner. voila! breakfast. Tue Jun 04 21:59:28 -0700 2002 68645 0 patrick 3 68961 Who makes the bockwurst? Thu Jun 06 08:42:28 -0700 2002 68830 0 Sharuf 1 68665 My favorite is the Saturday Alemany Market; it's close to my home and I have figured out which of the vendors I like and can trust. Second favorite is the Wednesday/Friday/Sunday market at Civic Center in SF. They have a few more "organic" stands than Alemany, and a somewhat different selection of Asian veggies. And the dried fruit and nut stand is the very best! Being a single person who doesn't cook every day, I don't buy all that much (except in this summer fruit season). I haven't been to the Ferry market in a couple of years; it's too expensive for me. Gretchen Mon Jun 03 00:35:05 -0700 2002 68642 0 Gretchen 2 68686 My sentiments exactly. There's something about the energy at Alemany that strikes me as particularly San Francisco. When Melanie asked where we go when we come back from traveling, this was the first place I thought of. Sometimes I go just for the mushrooms and date man (who has great ruby grapefruits too). I always end up with more than I can carry, usually for less than $20. Then I stop by the Parisien outlet and get a giant "damage" sourdough for 89 cents. Civic Center, while it has many of the same vendors, feels completely different. Ferry Plaza feels too upscale and white for me--wonderful produce, but like shopping at Whole Foods, too hard on my budget. I used to go to the Thursday Marin market when I worked in Novato and preferred that (those tomatoes!) and the seasonal evening markets. When I can't get to Alemany, I make a trip to Berkeley Bowl. Mon Jun 03 14:41:19 -0700 2002 68665 0 Windy 3 68695 I'm glad you mentioned Berkeley Bowl which is my favorite place to shop for produce and groceries. I assumed everyone in the Bay Area knew about the Bowl, but I had an off-line conversation with someone who didn't know it it existed, so if you haven't been there... While farmer's markets are limited to California, Berkeley Bowl has probably the largest selection of national and international produce at some of the best prices. The same Swanton Chandler strawberries that sell for $2.50 at the Farmers market in SF sell for 69 cents at Berkeley Bowl. Fifteen types of mushrooms. seven types of mangos, eight types of grapefruit, six types of bananas, five types of pineapples, about a dozen different sweet potatoes/yams, fresh lychees (wonderful. Taste like grapes), etc, etc, etc... and there are organic and non-organic versions of almost everything. First place I learned there were two varieties of blood oranges, the sweet Troccodero and the sour Morrow (or is it the other way around?). Sorry California, but I prefer the jucier Florida and Texas citrus fruit...those sweet wonderful Indian River oranges, the pink, white, red Texas grapefruit in small, medium and large sizes (organic and non organic). All this at really low prices. There are also rock bottom, good quality bin produce depending on the season - Fujia apples 39 cents a pound, Naval oranges 29 cents.. The web site link is below. Click on bulk foods to get an idea of the amazing variety of grains, flours, beans, pasta, nuts, spices, teas. Did I mention great prices. I know people who drive from San Jose to shop at the Bowl. There's a diverse group of people who shop there ... retirees looking for a deal, students, families with kids spilling out of shopping carts, young, old, rich, poor ... just people who love good food. (There is marked down produce in the back for those on a budget) The checkers are amazing to watch. They've got about 20 different types of oranges, and they know the price of each. If you do go, Saturday's are a madhouse. Going during the winter holidays....well...bring your holiday spirit along and perhaps a book while you wait in the checkout line. Perhaps the time to read Ulysses? They have a cafe/deli there. It gets my vote for the best lemon chicken I have ever had. Identifiable slices of lemons and the sauce is not gluey. There ARE people who prefer the Montery Market in Berkeley. I mention it for THOSE people :-) If you do shop at Monterey, please explain why. It seems to me their produce is always, well, tired. However, I didn't understand why anyone liked Trader Joe's until I read some Chowhound threads from fans. Here's an old Sunset Magazine link about both Markets. http://www.sunset.com/Premium/Travel/1998/07-Jul/BerkeleyBest798/BerkeleyBest798.html Link: http://www.berkeleybowl.com/welcome.htm Mon Jun 03 16:31:49 -0700 2002 68686 0 Stanley Stephan 4 68698 The Bowl is a Bay Area treasure -- it's the default answer to almost every "where do I get fresh ..." question on this board. Our family litmus test for being a chowhound is whether an out of town visitor understands why the Bowl is a must-see. You didn't mention the meat counter. I was there this weekend and verfied a question here a couple of weeks ago: yes they have Kosher chicken (Empire brand, both whole and parts) in addition to free-range and organic chickens. Niman Ranch beef, pork and lamb. And if that's too tame, they carry osterich and buffalo. Then there's their huge selection of high-end and organic dairy products. I bought some more of my new favorite butter: Vermont Cheese cultured butter for a bargain $4.59/lb, and some Nancy's organic sour cream (really good), $1.49/8 oz. The lines are not quite as bad as they look -- the checkers are indeed amazingly skillful and keep things moving. Besides, what other supermarket features the Food edition of the Utne Reader at the checkout stand racks? Mon Jun 03 17:02:26 -0700 2002 68695 0 Ruth Lafler 5 68716 Okay, this is old news to veteran readers who have seen me rave about Berkeley Bowl again and again...but this is from the perspective from someone who *can't* shop there regularly, because I live across the country. It's the first place I want to go when I get back to the Bay Area and the place I miss most, living in New York. I'm so jealous of my mom, who does all her regular food shopping at the Bowl and the local farmer's markets. And yes, people do travel to shop there. In fact, I believe our own Brandon Nelson, who lives in Napa and sells produce there for a living regularly comes down to Berkeley to do his own shopping at Berkeley Bowl. Mon Jun 03 20:35:53 -0700 2002 68698 0 Caitlin McGrath 4 68790 Why do I shop at Monterey Market? Because shopping at Berkeley Bowl is a pain in the ass. It is always crowded, parking is difficult, the lines are long, and the service is bad. I actually avoid driving down Shattuck because the Bowl traffic seems to clog things up. Of course I generally shop alone, it is definitely easier with a partner. You need someone to stand in the bulk foods line, while the other person stakes out a spot in the checkout line. I also think BB's produce department is poorly laid out. Granted, they have quite the cornucopia, but navigating the produce department is as bad as the parking lot. (this commentary may seem a little random, but the user interface is very important to me). ***IMHO, Bi-Rite in the Mission is one of the best laid out stores ever. They totally maximize the space without bottlenecks.*** Service-wise, my checkers have always been kids who don't seem to care about what they are doing. Every time I go to the fish counter, they are "cleaning" and are unwilling to scale or clean fish for me. The Monterey Market folks seem more professional to me (overall attitude, way the pack my bags, way the answer questions, etc). One checker carefully looks at each produce order and then tells the customer how much he thinks the order will come out to. He is usually right within a buck. BB is a supermarket with an amazing produce selection, MM is an amazing produce market. It all depends on how you shop. I like MM because I tend to wander and pick out stuff that looks great, then decide what to make. If you come in with a list, or want a full service store, BB is the way to go. They both have amazing produce, but in either store, you still have to forage for the best stuff. I prefer the cool confines of Monterey Market to the brightly lit, younger, hipper Berkeley Bowl. Tue Jun 04 17:27:50 -0700 2002 68695 0 Dan Raffle 1 68671 The three that I'm most familiar with: Justin Herman Plaza (SF) Tuesday mid-day all year round -- small, on the upscale side (mostly specialty and organic producers). Regulars: Twin Girls Farm (mostly organic fruit), Frog Hollow Farms (mostly stone fruit and jams), Marshall Farms Honey, Zuckerman (potatoes year round, asparagus in season, kettle corn), the Pasta Shop, Donna's Tamales, Acme, Bella Viva (fruit and dried fruit and nuts), and others whose names I can't remember: a couple of other bakers, the grower who specializes in mostly Asian pears, the mixed green people, a couple of apple producers, and a guy who does general truck garden-type stuff (vegetables and herbs). During the summer there are more vendors, including Yerena Farms berries, Blossom Bluff fruits. It's not huge and the prices are on the high side, but the quality is good and it's super convenient for people like me who work in the area to hit at lunch time. Jack London Square, Sundays, 10-1, year round. Large market with a mixture of high end and less so producers (also the number of producers makes the prices a bit more competitive). The products are loosely grouped by type, with most of the prepared foods (baked goods, sausages, Russian and Indian foods, etc.) at the west end. My favorite vendor there is actually the guy with the rainbow wig selling Il Pastaio fresh pasta -- great fresh pasta at really reasonable prices ($3.00/lb or 2 lb/$5) -- the paparadelle is my favorite. Last but not least, Nancy Berry mentioned the Friday morning market in Old Oakland. I don't make it there much any more, but when I worked in Oakland I went there frequently. Less upscale organics there and more specialty Asian veggies. Lower prices. It's almost like an extension of adjacent Chinatown: more serious shopping and less of a carnival/street fair atmosphere. Mon Jun 03 01:49:29 -0700 2002 68642 0 Ruth Lafler 1 68682 Thought I'd add some Berkeley representation to this thread... The date vendor at the Saturday morning Berkeley farmer's market (downtown Berkeley) sells the best dates I've ever tasted. I can't even bring myself to buy any of those horrible, dried-out supermarket dates anymore (even the ones in the produce section of Berkeley Bowl or Andronico's) since tasting the $4.00/pound fabulous dates at the farmer's market. And the other stuff is good, too. Mon Jun 03 13:33:01 -0700 2002 68642 0 Alexandra