Small & interesting wineries in Napa & Sonoma?

[Samo]

My love for Chenin Blanc is likely to make Chappellet a stop when I visit the wine country in early June, but I hope that some can recommend other interesting wineries, and especially small producers of noteworthy Zinfandel, Viognier and Pinot Noir. Since I was obliged to pay to taste wine on my last visit to the area, I'd particularly like to learn about wineries where one is likely to meet the winemaker and have wine poured for free, as is done in more civilized parts of the world. This is not about spectacular sites with restaurants on the premises and elaborate tours. Excellent wine and contact with those who make it.

[Brandon Nelson]

Pay to play is now the rule here...

Too many touristas took too much liberty over free pours in years past. Many Napa Valley wineries do credit tasting fees to purchases though. There are still many wineries in the Sonoma Valley that let you taste their basic lists gratis.

Pinot Noir does particularly well in the Carneros Valley. This area is a favorite of mine. Less touristy and more personable. I recomend Artesa and Carnerous Creek. When tasting in that area I must always stop at Domain Carnerous and enjoy a glass of Vintage "La Reve" on the terrace. I am sure Melanie Wong will offer you some great options too.

Chow!!!

[Samo]

I was counting on sage advice from Ms. Wong as well, but in vain.

[Melanie Wong]

Boy, what a grumpus! I thought you got more than enough sage advice in response to your request for info last year (thread linked below). My recollection was that you had only visited one place. But on rereading, this was because you had poison oak. So, I'm sympathetic and not so miffed that you didn't take more of our collective advice!

The Zin tour linked in that thread is still my best recommendations, and Amphora has been discovered with an uptick in price accordingly. Don't say I didn't tell you so. I would add to it the Rosenblum tasting room off the Plaze in Healdsburg. It's adjacent to Oakville Grocery. Also, you could try to get an appointment with Carol Shelton (the most awarded American winemaker now on her own) to see if she has any Zin for sale.

Carol Shelton
Vincare Consulting
Work: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Mobile: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
Custom 2: Shelton Mackenzie Wine Co.
Custom 1: Mitch Mackenzie

I'll second the recommendations for Pride Mountain Viognier and for Vincent Arroyo. I tasted the Pet Sirahs from Arroyo recently and they're excellent. You can make an appointment with Debi Cali. She also makes certain of the wines and she's around more often than Vincent.

Debi Cali
GM Winemaker
Vincent Arroyo
Work: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Primary Address
2361 Greenwood Ave.
Calistoga 94515

Also tried the Beaulieu Viognier a couple months ago from Carneros plantings and it's a nice wine for about $20.

For Pinot Noir, the only ones in Napa I've had recently were from Robert Sinskey on the Silverado Trail. yes, they do charge for tasting here, but the line-up is quite good across the board with the exception of the Zin. Merlot, Cab Franc blend and the PNs are very nice.

Other than that, I think you really need to head over to Sonoma side for world-class Pinot Noir. Carneros is just too hot to avoid baked flavors in PN and structure problems for the most part. Problem is, you'll have a hard time finding any PN to taste since they're made in much smaller quantities than the Zins in Sonoma and priced higher.

Above Joel recommended Rochioli, Davis Bynum and Gary Farrell. You might call ahead to see if they're actually pouring any Pinot and which cuvées before you make the drive. You could also visit Joseph Swan (listed in the zin tour, only open weekends, make an appointment with Rod Berglund, winemaker & pres.) and Sebastopol Cellars (Dutton Ranch) as you head further west in Russian River Valley, both of which have public tasting rooms.

Two smaller PN producers you could contact are Fred Scherrer (listed in the zin tour) and Wells Guthrie at Copain. Don't know if either has any wines for sale. You'd need an appointment, and you should suggest buying one bottle to taste on the spot with the expectation that you'll buy more if you like it. This is STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE with small boutique producers and if they do more than that be VERY grateful. Often when you decide to purchase in quantity, they'll swap you an unopened bottle as the one you purchase and not the one you've tasted from, but no guarantee. Copain is also making Viognier (haven't tried yet) and Syrah (like it better than the very good PN).

Wells Guthrie
Copain Wines
Work: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Work Address
1160 B Hopper
Santa Rosa
Custom 1: Stacey

The only way to make sure that you get to talk with the winemaker is to make an appointment. But bear in mind that if you do this and they extend themselves to you, you really should be buying wine during your visit unless you can tell the winemaker why you would never drink his/her wine. Also, if you make an appointment, be sure to keep it. Some wineries are not taking appointments other than from trade customers because about 1/3 of the retail public are no-shows for appointments.

DISCLAIMER: The winemakers named above are all personal friends.

Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...

[Jennie Sheeks]

As someone who manages the business office of a small winery let me echo your sage and accurate comments Melanie:

1. Do call the winery if you have to cancel or are running late.
2. Be respectful of their time, it is likely that spending time with you takes time away from many other responsibilities. Most employees of small, family wineries wear many, many hats.
3. Don't expect to spend 2 hours tasting several wines that they open just for you and then leave without buying any wine, or with just one bottle of their cheapest wine. This happened to me and now I do not offer tastings at all.
4. Appointments are often only available at odd hours because it is a small winery with few employees that may not even work a full 40 hours. Be flexible.
5. Don't try to negotiate for a price break over the phone and then show up and park your new Porsche Boxster next to the owners beat-up old pick-up truck and his tiny non-central heated house.
6. And finally, simply, don't be a jerk.

[Samo]

Very bitter.

[Melanie Wong]

A simple thank you would suffice, Samo. (g) You've been given the straight scoop here and a look at how to gain the inside track. Sorry if you don't like hearing the realities of the business and that there's no free lunch. Neither Jennie nor I are going to lie about this.

Unfortunately, wine tourism has brought out too many people who have an overinflated sense of entitlement and take advantage. Many wineries are happy to pay their distributors to promote their products and want to avoid the public at all costs. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the experience for the rest of us who are responsible. There are readers of both types looking on here, and sometimes we all need to be reminded about these things.

[Tom Hall]

I will respectfully disagree with Ms. Wong re: Carneros pinot noir after admitting that I probably lack her palate and surely lack her knowledge of and experience with wine as well as her ability to describe wine.

I would recommend stops at Schug where the pinot is often very good QPR and at both Artesa (formerly Domaine Cordinou) and Carneros Creek. Artesa was pouring wines for $5- waived with purchase and has 4 PN's, including Santa Barbara, Carneros and Russian River with their reserve, probably Carneros, being sold out a couple months ago. The basic bottlings were $25 each, full retail. Francis Mahoney owns Carneros Creek and has long been interested in making good pinot in CA. He is a very friendly person and probably knows as much about pinot clones as anyone around. Again I find his wines to be reasonably priced. The people working at both Artesa and Carneros Creek are very helpful and friendly, also.

Also, the advice given by the winery manager is IMO very important. I am a consumer and have been repeatedly amazed and appalled by the behavior of many other consumers over the years when visiting wineries. I work also with the public in my profession and her advice was right on the money for any interaction with other people. It was just a reminder about appropriate ettiquette.

[Melanie Wong]

Tom, the only palate that matters is your own! It's your money and you should put it down on the barrelhead to suit yourself.

As you recommend, Artesa is a great place to try Pinots from different appellations (growing regions). I've tasted the previous two vintages in the tasting room this way, and inevitably, I prefer the Santa Barbara and Russian River to the two Carneros bottlings. But that's just my own taste. (g)

Carneros Pinot can be a delicious quaff. But I find them coarser and less refined, more toward Syrah or Zinfandel in character, than more finesseful Pinots from cooler areas. In Pinot Noir, I go for wimpy wines.

[Windy]

Napa is the main offender in terms of charging, although you often get to taste much better wines. I agree with Brandon, this is a product of too much success and tourism, and I believe the price is always credited toward purchase.

One of my favorite wine maker experiences was at Vincent Arroyo, north of Calistoga. The wines are affordable and can be quite good. Many wines sell out before they're bottled. He'll give you a taste of whatever he's concocting out of the barrel; ask if he's making any port. The dog is nice too.

In Sonoma, I like tasting at Kunde (the underground tour is cool, literally). If you like Zinfandels, you might want to stop at Ravenswood, despite its size.

Napa is frightfully expensive real estate, so you might consider broadening where you taste to find more small wineries--north, south, and east.

-Jepson in Ukiah; southern Mendocino county isn't that far from northern Sonoma

-Wente out by Livermore continues to dazzle, and its restaurant gets great reviews; Contra Costa County is increasingly where wine grapes are grown and there are at least four wineries you could take in

-Many fine wineries in the Santa Cruz Mountains
(Ridge--famous for zinfandels, David Bruce--known for pinor noirs, Bonny Doon--a little of everything with esoteric European blends and fruit infused dessert wines) are all worth the drive.

[Samo]

The charge for tasting is not always deducted when one buys a few bottles: Louis M. Martini offered no such discount when I visited the winery last spring.

[Wendy-san]

I agree with Windy -- you may want to broaden your horizons away from Sonoma and Napa. The Livermore Valley still has several small wineries where you can talk to the winemaker and taste wines at no charge. One of my favorites is Thomas Coyne Winery -- another good one is Fenestra. The link below is to the Thomas Coyne page on a site called California's Hidden Wineries, which you may want explore further. And, yes, the Wente Vineyards restaurant in Livermore is quite good.

Link: http://www.hiddenwineries.com/CA/baya...

[Melanie Wong]

Thomas Coyne makes a remarkably good and relatively inexpensive (~ $15) Viognier from a vineyard around Mokelumne River.

[Wendy]

correction on link
http://thomascoynewinery.com

Link: http://thomascoynewinery.com

Image: http://thomascoynewinery.com/wine%20t...

[jane]

I like Rafanelli and Quivira in Healdsburg. You'll need an appointment for Rafanelli, but the wine is superb... Zins and Cabs. Darling winery (nothing fancy or high tech) w/ beautiful hillside vines. Quivira is just down the road. It is more "flashy" (i.e. gift shop, etc.) but the people are friendly and the wine is really good and down-right inexpensive. Zins and Syrahs are my favorite. No charge at either.

[Marc Wallace]

Cosentino (up in Yountville, I believe?) has been my fave for over a year now. Aside from some cheap cooking wine, all the wine I have now is from there.

Discovered them on the wine train "vintner's lunch" -- Mitch Cosentino is there one weekend in late February. It's a small, private winery. They don't grow their own grapes, but they make the wines "by hand", without a lot of the machine processing -- and you can definitely taste it!

It's $5 for a tasting, more ($10?) to include the "choice" wines... but if few people are there, or you appear to be purchasing a lot, they'll offer samples of just about anything they have open. Wine club offers 25% off.

Just north of downtown Yountville on I-(whatever), about a mile north, on the left (west). Just north of Mustard's, I believe.

Link: http://www.cosentinowinery.com/

Image: http://www.cosentinowinery.com/media/...

[Andy Jacob]

Greetings Samo,

Here is an excellent site referencing wineries in California. I have been using this site extensively for a volunteer project that I am working on. I would encourage you to do your research beforehand, also (posting on Chowhound is one aspect) and my word of advice would be to try and taste during the week, or make appointments at the appointment only places on the weekends. Also, you may find that there are a number wineries that are closed to tasting. Some of these hold members only tasting events and others have waiting lists for new members as their wine production is fully subscribed. I visited a lovely, appointment only winery yesterday (Pride Mountain, above St. Helena - straddles Napa and Sonoma Counties). They produced 38 cases of Syrah this year and they sold out in 4.5 hours. They are focussed on catering to their best customers - i.e. no wine club. They do have, however, a fantastic, if pricey, Viogner and spectacular picnic spots - must make reservations to taste, tour and picnic. They were also pouring ($5 fee, Merlot '99 & '00 and Cab Franc).

Link: http://www.californiawineriesmall.com/

[Andy Jacob]

Hey Samo,

I don't know when in June you are coming up, but this could be just the ticket - Sonoma County Bayou Boogie. Jim Leff posted this about the 3rd week of April. I'll put the link below.

Chowfornow,

AJ

Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...

[Wendy]

Thomas Coyne Winery

Link: http://thomascoynewinery.com

Image: http://thomascoynewinery.com/wine%20t...