199056 Mon Jan 20 01:53:31 -0800 2003 26 18 Manhattan 0 1061511 Yes, they're overpriced, and the food sucks, but there's a special something that makes them unique. A friend and I ended up having drinks with our former English professor who was in town and suggested the Algonquin Hotel. I would have never gone there on my own, but once we got there we had a grand old time--great martinis, lots of smoke, and a wonderful old waiter who couldn't hear a thing we said. What are some of your own fave's? Mon Jan 20 01:53:31 -0800 2003 0 adam 1 1061514 I have to say that I am always seriously less than whelmed at the quality of drinks in hotel bars in Manhattan. I was recently at The Algonquin for an evening and the Martini's they made me were very poor indeed ( far too much vermouth and far too warm ) The selection of bourbons was also pretty risible. It is a nice room though and I like both the atmosphere and service The only hotel bar I can, hand on heart, rec from my lifelong shallow search for the perfect Martini ( currently to be found at Salvatore's Bar in the Lanesborough hotel in London ) is the bar at the W on 49th and Lexington. Although the room looks like an explosion in a bad taste factory and the waiter/esses all look like they have one ear out for that call from the Storm modelling agency, the drinks are above average and the sashaying of the bright young things is endlessely amusing for a doddery old git like me, What's more, they are the only bar in the whole US I have ever found who can make a pink gin which makes them legends, greats and gods in my book S Mon Jan 20 06:27:38 -0800 2003 1061511 0 SImon Majumdar 2 1061524 if you sit at the bar in the KING COLE BAR at the st. regis hotel when it's not too busy the old guys will certainly make you excellent drinks. i cannot say that for certain if you are sitting in the lounge area. in my experience it's best to stay close to the action when someone is concocting your libation. p.s.- thank you for the pink gin recipe above. Mon Jan 20 10:52:37 -0800 2003 1061514 0 mrnyc 3 1061525 No problem I always go to the KCB pre eating at L'espinasse. We usually have a sweep to see if the old guy making the drink will live long enough to finish it. I did have a very good old fashioned there last time though S Mon Jan 20 10:56:37 -0800 2003 1061524 0 Simon Majumdar 4 1061563 Isn't it about time the OF made a comeback? It's my wintertime cocktail of choice. I'm afraid, however, of what our current Cosmopolitanizing appletini-izing bar culture might do to it, though. It's bad enough that most bartenders, even those otherwise worth their salt, can't make an OF that isn't tooth-achingly sweet. What happens when the Grand Marnier Old Fashioned hits the streets? (she shudders...) Mon Jan 20 14:53:12 -0800 2003 1061525 0 GG Mora 5 1061579 I'm with you GG. Of all the stick-to-yer-ribs, feel-it-all-the-way-down-the-gullet wintertime cocktails, the Old Fashioned is my favorite. I have stopped ordering them out because they just don't get it right. Have a neighbor who makes one fine old fashioned, but we are temporarily estranged (until he returns my garbage can). Can anybody suggest a bar that makes a great one? Mon Jan 20 17:12:45 -0800 2003 1061563 0 Deb Van D 5 1061588 I, too, prefer an Old Fashioned when having a cocktail but despair at ever getting a good one. Most bartenders don't have a clue and serve up a sweet bourbon spritzer, when a proper Old Fashioned has no soda water in it at all. I'm providing a link to an interesting bit on the evolving recipe of the Old Fashioned. Link: http://www.drinkboy.com/Cocktails/recipes/OldFashioned.html Mon Jan 20 18:55:56 -0800 2003 1061563 0 Deven Black 6 1061616 Thanks for the link -- some fascinating reading. I have actually, on *several* occasions, been instructed by the bartender to come behind the bar and mix the drink myself as he/she looked on. I live and drink in Vermont; I don't think you could get away with this in Manhattan (except maybe at a low-key neighborhood watering hole). Tue Jan 21 09:43:07 -0800 2003 1061588 0 GG Mora 7 1061695 Manhattan is filled with low-key neighborhood watering holes, but I can't imagine many of them inviting you to come back and make your own drink. Most bartenders, however, will take instruction if offered nicely. Tue Jan 21 17:01:07 -0800 2003 1061616 0 Deven Black 3 1061533 I love the King Cole Bar at the St. Regis. Mon Jan 20 11:33:46 -0800 2003 1061524 0 David Greenbaum 3 1061576 I was visiting New York a couple of years ago and went to the King Cole Bar. My friend and I sat at the bar. I ordered a martini, she ordered champagne or something. The bartenders were talking to some other patrons who I assume were regulars, but pretty much silent. The people watching was fabulous, and our dinner reservations weren't for a while, so we decided to stay and order another drink. I ordered another martini. The bartender brought my cocktail that was so full that only the surface tension of the liquid was holding it in the glass. He looked at me, I looked at him, thinking that this must be some kind of challenge...see if this girl is steady of hand enough to pick up this drink, her second martini, without spilling it. I lifted the pick, holding two huge olives, out of the drink, thereby decreasing the volume, allowing me to pick up the drink without spilling a drop. The bartender gave me a barely perceptible nod of approval, and was markedly more friendly after that. I still laugh about that, and I go back to that bar whenever I visit NY. I'll be there next week! Mon Jan 20 17:00:22 -0800 2003 1061524 0 Pat Darnell 2 1061541 Are you in the shaken camp along with the other heathens who like ice floating in their drinks? If so, City Hall makes the best shaken martini, if that's your thing. If you prefer the fine texture of a stirred martini, The Blackbird was the best, but is now sadly closed. The search continues for a substitute, but Mark's Bar is very good as is Vodka Bar (aka Round Bar, aka the little room at the Royalton that everyone misses the first time). Mon Jan 20 12:25:37 -0800 2003 1061514 0 Mogsob 3 1061557 I am a shaken man, sorry. I find stirring just does not get the drink sufficiently cold. Some drinks should be stirred of course, like a great old fashioned. But, on the Martini front. shake it baby. S Mon Jan 20 14:07:32 -0800 2003 1061541 0 Simon Majumdar 4 1061560 I take it that you subscribe to the camp that believes that the best martini is the coldest martini. I used to be there also, until I saw the light (as served by M. De Groff). I strongly suggest asking him for a stirred martini (I don't think he would shake it anyway) on Wednesday. Mon Jan 20 14:25:45 -0800 2003 1061557 0 Mogsob 5 1061562 There are so many Martini's. Mr D G has written a history of them for the Match Bar group in London. The Cold War Martini is very dry and very cold. That's the fella. Other types are available for the ladies:-) S Mon Jan 20 14:30:57 -0800 2003 1061560 0 Simon Majumdar 2 1061631 This, along with other posts on this thread, comes as quite a surprise. First, I offer that a recent report brings news that the re-located King Cole Bar is a pathetic, pale fraud, a sham of itself. No personal knowledge here. It is more of a shock that a Perfect Martini crown has been awarded to a London hotel. for years the only decent one could be found at the Savoy--all others suffered from the NY idictment--too much vermouth, not cold enough. The "cold War" martini is the ONLY martini, of course, and it was ubiqitous in New York and Boston in the good ole daze. The best bars--and some were on trains---knew that a martini served "up" should be small so that it did not warm up while one sipped it. the big Y shaped affairs we see everywhere in a childish attempt to recreate an imagined past are too big and one must damn near slug the thing down before it becomes tepid. A million years ago, the Oak Bar understood this. A recent trip there revealled competent but not stellar martinis but that is the fault of the ice. Everyone now uses ice machine ice which is just, simply put, crap. One needs clear, hard ice, chipped off of a block. If any hotel bar in Manhattan--or London (!) has such an offering, I should be pleased to know. [An ice topic is a whole different argument--well, no real argument. Just facts, Ma'm Tue Jan 21 11:23:34 -0800 2003 1061514 0 Hazelhurst 1 1061517 Bemelman's Bar at the Carlyle Mon Jan 20 09:07:22 -0800 2003 1061511 0 JessicaKlonsky 1 1061539 I second Bemelmans at the Carlyle. Lisa P Mon Jan 20 12:10:43 -0800 2003 1061511 0 Lisa P 1 1061540 Contrary to Simon, and with all due respect, a decent drink can be had in NY. I favor the following: Bemelman's Bar (Carlyle) -- for the music, as well King Cole Bar (St. Regis) -- only when not crowded Mark's Bar (The Mark) -- always great drinks here Round Bar (Royalton) -- for your martinis Pen-Top Bar (Peninsula) -- ok, just for the views Top of the Tower (Beekman) -- a classic Merc Bar -- so many partial memories Four Seasons (restaurant, not hotel) -- yes, they have a bar their too Mon Jan 20 12:21:40 -0800 2003 1061511 0 Mogsob 2 1061548 I'd also like to add: Angels Share (east village) The Campbell Apartment (upstairs inside Grand Central) Mon Jan 20 13:08:41 -0800 2003 1061540 0 Nina 3 1061554 Two very good bars that have lost their appeal due to perpetual overcrowding. An overworked bartender is never a good thing. Mon Jan 20 13:41:24 -0800 2003 1061548 0 Mogsob 4 1061555 I've been to both Angels Share and the Campbell Apartment several times in the last few months - no problem with overcrowding. And I wasn't there at weird hours that I recall. Mon Jan 20 13:45:53 -0800 2003 1061554 0 Nina 5 1061561 I was at Angels Share just over a month ago and it was fine. Not great drinks ( certainly worse than the last time I was there ) but not too crowded. I thought they only allowed a cetain number of people in and did not allow standing for that reason S Mon Jan 20 14:28:58 -0800 2003 1061555 0 Simon Majumdar 3 1061615 Angel Share and the Campbell apartment are not hotel bars. Tue Jan 21 09:18:17 -0800 2003 1061548 0 DeeDee 1 1061728 I stayed at the Roosevelt last year (actually a year ago December ...). Anyway, it has a nice bar, a few steps up and away from the old-New York style lobby. The stick itself is fine, plus it has lots of small tables here and there, including some "made for one," with decent lamps (all of which which works nicely for a Bloody Mary while reading the Times early on a Sunday afternoon.) I know, what's the point of going to a bar if one sits by one's self and reads the paper, but ... well, I don't really have a rebuttal ... Tue Jan 21 21:16:51 -0800 2003 1061511 0 Rick Hannon 2 1061742 When the Westminister KC dog show is at the Garden, the competitors--both four legged and two legged-- stay at the Roosevelt. The lobby and bar are quite an experience that week. Tue Jan 21 22:27:03 -0800 2003 1061728 0 lucia 2 1061784 I fail to see what's wrong with sitting at a bar and reading. One of the joys of life. Wed Jan 22 11:22:23 -0800 2003 1061728 0 K. McB.