196930 Tue Sep 17 18:29:12 -0700 2002 17 18 Manhattan 0 1050923 My earliest forays into Manhattan in search of chow were in the early/mid 80s for German food in Yorkville. Although this was historically the German district in NYC, it was on the far side of the downward curve even in those days. I remember a restaurant (Bavarian Inn?), an Austrian-style cafe, and a German butcher shop or two. I haven't been in this nabe in probably 15 years, are there any culinary vestiges of this German tradition remaining? Just curious... ---Guy Tue Sep 17 18:29:12 -0700 2002 0 Guy 1 1050924 Heidelberg on 85th and second. Cant say I am a fan but husband and his buddies love the bratwurst and Warsteiner beer plus other german varieties. Place is kind of a throwback. Cheezy as anything inside with surly waitresses dressed in leder hosen (apologize in advance for spelling) I will say the potato pancakes were yummy. Lisa P Tue Sep 17 18:46:16 -0700 2002 1050923 0 Lisa P 2 1050945 "Bratwurst", "Cheezy", "Throwback", "Surly waitresses in lederhosen"??? Sounds like my kind of place! Thanks for the response. ---Guy Wed Sep 18 09:00:56 -0700 2002 1050924 0 Guy 2 1050966 I love the Heidelberg. My favorite potato pancakes in the city. And it still feels like the real NYC of neighborhoods and shopping districts when I'm there. I believe the waitresses wear dirndls. I'd rather not picture them in lederhosen. Wed Sep 18 10:59:08 -0700 2002 1050924 0 K. McB. 2 1050982 It is good to see The HEildelberg get some press. After an exhausting shopping spree at Schaller & Weber it is nice to relax in the dark precincts of The 'berg. Was introduced (more years ago than I care to remark upon) Paulaner H.W. in there. Just made a sentimental journey there earlier this year. True about the decline. In the 1960's we'd visit the doorman at our old sub-let apartment up there and the place was still booming German. Sad to see the loss. Used to be a fun spot called "The Gripsholm" which put out a groaning board. It was somewhere up there but damned if I can recall where. Had a model of the ocean liner of the same name and fun varieties at the buffet. Anyone know what's there now? (I"d guess the place has been gone since the 1970's) Another lost love..... Wed Sep 18 11:53:13 -0700 2002 1050924 0 Hazelhurst 1 1050933 I was a regular patron going back more than 40 years at the many German Restaurants in Yorkville and now we're down to just two that aren't worth the trip. No shortage of Mexican, Chinese, Fast Food and Pizzeria's but no decent German Restaurant. What a disgrace. It angers me. Tue Sep 17 22:52:20 -0700 2002 1050923 0 John 2 1050946 Hi: Thanks for the reply! I assume the Heidelberg (mentioned by Lisa P) is one, can you tell me the 2nd? I may want to make the trip anyway, just for old-time's sake. ---Guy Wed Sep 18 09:02:45 -0700 2002 1050933 0 Guy 3 1050959 I believe that Heidelberg may be the only one left. The second one may have closed. It was a coffee shop type place on 86th near 2nd Avenue which had mostly counter service and just a few tables in the rear. I'm told that the Silver Swan (41 E. 20th) isn't bad. What I mostly do is shop at Schaller & Weber and prepare my own German meals using receipes on the internet. There are suppose to be some decent German Restaurants in Queens such as Zum Stammtisch, Niederstein, Koenig and Chalet Alpina. Wed Sep 18 10:27:01 -0700 2002 1050946 0 John 2 1050999 a disgrace? not to sound rude, but disgraceful to whom? perhaps 'what a shame?' bryanj Wed Sep 18 14:18:14 -0700 2002 1050933 0 bryanj 3 1051001 Please judge chow, not postings. We have lots of different people here who talk lots of different ways. What counts is the passion. Wed Sep 18 14:29:50 -0700 2002 1050999 2 The Chowhound Team 2 1051200 it's not the little guy's fault, don't blame it on the chinese, mexicans, italians. blame it on the big corporations for destroying the neighborhood. the Wiz, foot locker, mcdonalds, sheesh. Fri Sep 20 03:37:04 -0700 2002 1050933 0 joe 3 1051207 not about food at all, but its really real estate development trends and demographics - 30 yrs ago Yorkville was mostly small apartment buildings with Mom and Pop businesses and moderate income people, German, Hungarian, fixed income etc, just too appealing for development. With those big highrises replacing small buildings and high rents came a different population and the stores to support them. There are remnants but its just a totally different feeling today. Sadly. ps - if you want homestyle middle european food in that neighborhood, go to Mocca Hungarian, 2nd Ave around 81st, one of the remnants and still serving up tasty chow at a reasonable price. The still have their fixed price dinner $16 which gets you a mammoth meal - and the food is really tasty. Especially if you like pork. I had their spare ribs (boiled or baked and then fried to a turn) as an app and a deilcate and tasty rendition (huge portion-took half of it home) of stuffed cabbage as a main. Husband had the "gypsy plate" of tasty red-peppery pork chops and the standards, paprikash, goulash, soup, etc are all fine. I especially recommend their duck (or goose when available) or pork shank when offered, all wonderful, they do great things with fatty meats. Desserts are nice too, the palacsintas, the chestnut dessert with plenty of whipped cream, the strudels if they are not out. This place is run by a bunch of folks with white hair, so if you want to get a glimpse of what the Yorkville neighborhood used to be like, go SOON - it and its homey bargains wont be there forever. Fri Sep 20 09:36:18 -0700 2002 1051200 0 jen kalb 4 1051341 Just to add to what Jen said, a lot of these places were family run and the younger generation didn't want to put in all the work their parents did. When you couple that with the ability to sell the place (if you own it) or the air rights or sometimes the business even if you didn't own the building--well, it was just too tempting. It's not just the German places that are gone, it's also the wonderful Czech places, with their marvelous duck, rabbit, goose. Anyone remember Czech Praha, or the Duck Joint? They were a little lower, in the E 70s, I believe. I think changing tastes and trends in food played some role in the demise of these places too. Sun Sep 22 16:14:51 -0700 2002 1051207 0 Wanda 1 1050955 Don't know if this is what you had in mind but Schaller & Weber, an old school German butcher and fine food store is on 2nd ave and like 86th street. Its great, especially for double smoked bacon. How about German Candy? Elk Candy has a variety of (I think) homemade marzipan. Elk is at 1628 Second AVe. Wed Sep 18 10:09:06 -0700 2002 1050923 0 Abbylovi 1 1050991 And if you go this weekend, you can take in the German-American parade. I'm still trying to figure out the food ramifications, although it looks as if there may be an Octoberfest that's associated with the event. The marshalls this year are, wait for it, Siegfried & Roy! Link: http://www.gasp-ny.org/news.htm Wed Sep 18 12:35:23 -0700 2002 1050923 0 Wisco 1 1051024 The Café Sabarsky in the Neue Gallerie (86th and fifth, not exactly Yorktown) is worth a visit, but $$$. The Neue Gallerie is a museum refurbished by the Lauders (as in Estee) The Cafe specializes in Viennese pastries such as Sacher torte and apple strudel and fare such as beef goulash with quark spatzle and roasted peppers, and tafelspitz, boiled beef with creamed spinach and sauteed potatoes, and coffees from Meinl in Vienna. Its telephone is 212-288-0665. Wed Sep 18 15:53:21 -0700 2002 1050923 0 Al Key 1 1051105 The Yorkville Inn is also still around. Their Sauerbrauten I've always found to be better than the Heidleberg's and the docor is more low key. I think Big Apple Strudel is still right next to the Heidleberg but am sad to report that after something like 60 years Kramer's went out of business and has been replaced with a Vietnamese restaurant. Ryan Thu Sep 19 13:31:59 -0700 2002 1050923 0 Ryan 2 1051181 Big Apple Strudel closed and became Two Little Red Hens. Thu Sep 19 20:47:25 -0700 2002 1051105 0 Kerry