196789 Mon Sep 09 19:49:53 -0700 2002 7 18 Manhattan 0 1050267 The following has happend to me more than a couple of times now and I wanted to see if others have experienced the same thing. I settled in for a meal at Town last Friday night with my girlfriend. It was early, uncrowded, sedate. I'm a wine fan and fairly knowledgeable, as I've been reading, buying and drinking good wine for over 15 years. I was given the wine list, which was organized interestingly and obviously had a keen wine mind behind it. In a fine restaurant, I've always felt like talking to the sommelier before I make a final choice: they (should) know what's drinking really well on the list; they can steer me to something that matches the style of wines that I prefer, based on my answers to their questions, etc. And it's fun. Here's the annoying part: I ask the waiter to send the sommelier. They agree, but five minutes later the floor manager -- is that the Captain? -- comes over: "Can I answer your questions about the list?" "Are you the sommelier ? , I ask, with NO attitude, I might add. He looked momentarily taken a back that I would ask him this: "No." "I'd like to talk to the sommelier, please" I answer, again with no affect on my part. He goes off, the sommelier comes five minutes later, we have a lovely chat, he recommends a great bottle of wine that my girlfriend and I both loved. (A bottle that the sommelier had informed me was a particularly good value as he had gotten as a kind of closeout -- knowledge that the Captain almost certainly wouldn't have been able to impart.) Maybe it's just me (my girlfriend agreed we me, of course!) , but, when this happens, it makes me feel condescended to -- like whatever my question may be, it doesn't warrant the precious time of the sommelier. So: has this kind of thing happened to anyone else ?? I've had a few experiences now where waiters or captains have seemingly actively tried to prevent their sommelier from.......well, doing his/her job !! Is it the demand on the sommelier's time, could they be that busy ?? Are they paying them by the consultation (kidding) ? Now, in an attempt to head off the flames and conclusion-jumping: I'm always polite and smile; my date and I are dressed very well; my demeanor is appropriate for these places; I'm middle-aged and blend right into these places. Any light shed on this little mystery would be appreciated..... Bill Mon Sep 09 19:49:53 -0700 2002 0 Bill 1 1050278 As a NYC captain allow me to respond ... Over the past 10 years restaurants at the level of TOWN have done extraordinary jobs at training their staff and their captains in wine service. When you ask your captain right off the bat for the sommelier you have lobbed an insult without knowing it. You have, in effect said, "I'm not even going to give you the benefit of the doubt regarding wine knowledge." A far better approach is to have your conversation about the list with the captain and if he is worth his mettle, and you want to go further than his knowlege allows, he will be happy to get the sommelier for you. Also, going straight for the sommelier can backfire inasmuch as he has an inventory agenda and his recomendations may have more to do with what he needs to move from the cellar before the end of the month than with what you are eating. PS Both the captain and the sommelier could have been women in my post, no offense. Tue Sep 10 02:30:15 -0700 2002 1050267 0 Fred and Wilma 2 1050292 "When you ask your captain right off the bat for the sommelier you have lobbed an insult without knowing it." Really? That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that dynamic. But, captain, couldn't the same be said for going over the WAITER'S head to the captain for wine reccos? Seesh, from a restaurant's perspective, what's the purpose of having a sommelier on staff if it's a faux pas to make use of her/him? (thanks, by the way, for the savvy tip for not using sommeliers from the customer's perspective). ciao Tue Sep 10 10:52:59 -0700 2002 1050278 0 Jim Leff 3 1050294 Hmmm...if I've made a gaffe here, let me know. I've always assumed that the captain was an uber-waiter, closer to the level of maitre d'. I don't usually pay a lot of attention to that stuff, as I'm generally focused on the chow rather than chain of command, etc! : ) ciao Tue Sep 10 10:57:48 -0700 2002 1050292 0 Jim Leff 4 1050345 You are right of course that the chain of command is not your concern and since so many restaurants interchange so many terms, who could keep them all straight. ("no we don't have a sommelier but we do have a wine director") But at places like Town, Jean-Georges, GT, etc, the person who you identify as your server (whether called captain, waiter, head waiter, front waiter) is usually the best place to start. I think sommelier's can and should be utilized. I was hoping to shed light as to why there might be repeated friction to an otherwise polite request. Tue Sep 10 17:55:03 -0700 2002 1050294 0 Fred and Wilma 2 1050346 when a diner requests to speak with the sommelier, why would the captain come over to the table? i can understand the waiter going to the captain but should that request not have then just been passed on to the sommelier? imo it was a straightforward and very direct request that was ignored and the diner was then put in an awkward position. if the captain presented as,"i'm sorry the sommelier is not here this evening, or is not available at the moment" it would have allowed for a less abrupt interaction. i mean come on, it's no mystery that anyone who is a wine buff wants to talk with the sommelier. no offense captain but that is a fact. we'll gladly talk food and service with you. i understand your response but these are the kind of internal office politics that make evenings frustrating to diners at higher end places. patrons shouldn't have to need to know this. Tue Sep 10 17:56:51 -0700 2002 1050278 0 mrnyc 3 1050351 "Any light shed on this little mystery would be appreciated....." Is all I was trying to do. Tue Sep 10 18:31:27 -0700 2002 1050346 0 Fred and Wilma 4 1050362 i know and your comments are very much appreciated. i just hope that you and perhaps other captains are hearing out the concerns of your patrons here as well. i've had something similar happen and it so detracts from the evening at a nice place to feel not listened to, unaware and awkward. Tue Sep 10 20:06:57 -0700 2002 1050351 0 mrnyc