Seeking breakfast place & hotel near C. Panisse.

Special treat for us: we're flying up to N. Calif. for a midweek reservation at Chez Panisse (to which we've never been). If we can get away without driving, we'll take BART 9 blocks to the restaurant and leave next day. Can anyone here suggest a nearby hotel to stay afterwords and place for breakfast (or pastry!) next morning? Thanks.

Wow! I'm overwhelmed with the responses! Thank you all for your suggestions for me. I'll review them carefully. I hadn't realized there were so many good alternatives from which to choose and so many people willing to help me. My excitement factor has doubled for this trip!!

Thanks again everybody.

Paul S.

Thanks again, everybody! I took one poster's advice below to stay in SF: my wife and I were able to get a nice room at the Mark Hopkins in San Francisco at a decent price through the internet. We flew in to Oakland at 11am and took BART to SF, and walked up Powell (We could have taken the cable car, but decided to hoof it.) Stopped for a snack at Kuletto's. Checked into the hotel about 1:30, and about 4pm we walked backed down and caught BART to Berkeley, where we walked to the restaurant.

We had a very good meal. Not the most elegant or sophisticated, but very good, and memorable for us. Which is what we wanted. My one error in my original post was that I forgot to ask about the dress code. I assumed the restaurant was a bit dressy, but I was wrong. (Must be the times and Berkeley location.) So I didn't need to pack my blazer and dress pants and dress shoes. But that's okay. For us, it's a treat to be at Chez Panisse. (We do fit in among the "older", dressier people rather than the younger crowd, a couple of whom were there in ratty jeans.) After dinner, a leisurely walk back to BART for our return to SF.
aside: Of course being a pseudo chowhound, I was sorry the cheeze co-op pizza place across the street that I read about here was closed when we left C.P. (8:30 pm). I would've stopped to at least bring back a slice to our hotel room. (Further aside: a real chowhound would've stopped to have a slice before the 6:30 pm seating when he/she walked by the storefront and the cheezy pizza smell was so inviting.) -g-

Next day, cable car to Yang Sen (sp) on Spear Ave for their delicious dim sum. (Unusual for us to see: they served Peking Duck - which was decent, but not the best we've had. The highlight: their dim sum desserts - those puddings - were the best Chinese desserts we've ever had in any Chinese restaurant.) Then walk to BART for Colima and shuttle bus to SFO for trip home.

Worked out great! Weather was superb. Loved being in San Francisco. Thanks again for all the suggestions; you folks really helped. Maybe my wife and I won't wait for a special occasion to do this again!

regards,

Paul S.

I'm glad you had a great trip!

I hope you not only come back again but stay longer (especially if they are still having great internet deals at the Mark Hopkins -- what internet site did you use?).

By the way, you never said where you were flying in from ... what's the chow scene like there?

We checked all other sites we could find after seeing good price by chance for that hotel on Travelocity, but could not find no better price.

Flew in from Los Angeles. Hope you Northern California people won't hold that against me. -g-.
I live near a Japanese-American enclave, near a Fillipino community, 40 min. away from a Little India, and 40 min from a big Little Saigon. Same time maybe to get to black area for BBQ/soul food places. And of course, plenty of Chinese and Mexican places are interspersed in pockets throughout LA. Upscale stuff's available in adjacent west side communities of Santa Monica/Beverly Hills. So for me, chowhound situation is good. Still... sometimes grass seems greener elsewhere---I really like the compact San Francisco bar/restaurant scene. More urbane, more intense, more accessible, more "professional". (Perhaps (?) more expensive too, but for tourist me, that's not an issue.)

As long as you praise our chow, we won't hold being from SoCal against you [g].

I agree that one of the best things about the central Bay Area is how compact it is -- at least compared to New York, LA or Chicago. In addition, my impression is that the Bay Area is less separated into ethnic enclaves, which has both good and bad aspects -- I think one of the great joys of the Bay Area is to walk down the "foodie" streets like Mission and Clement in the City and Solano, Telegraph, and International in the East Bay and see all kinds of ethnic eateries right next to each other.

Assuming you have a car, you should be able to get a good rate at the Radisson. (I think it's the Radisson--used to be the Marriot, in Berkeley Marina at the foot of University). Great view of San Francisco, both bridges. The rooms are nothing special, but they're big and the views are lovely.

If you stay elsewhere, you could head over to Hong Kong East Ocean on the point in Emeryville for an upscale dim sum treat with the same view. The dim sum is good--not great--but I always enjoy it.

While you're in the same neighborhood as Chez Panisse, you should walk around the corner to the original Peet's in Walnut Square and pay homage.

I'm finding reading this thread very frustrating: this guy asked a very specific question: he doesn't want to drive, wants to be walking distance to Chez Panisse, and wants a place to grab a quick breakfast before they fly out again.

So why does a response start, "Assuming you have a car ..."? Why are people sending him to Oliveto? Or the Claremont? Or Bette's?

The Claremont is gorgeous, but it's incredibly expensive, not walking distance from Chez Panisse, and not really worth it for the quick trip the poster described.

To summarize: The French Hotel and Shattuck Hotel fit your criteria. The Durant Hotel is a little farther away, but is a lovely Julia Morgan building on a tree-lined street. Saul's and Fatapples are close to the French Hotel for breakfast. La Note and Venus are close to the other two.

Hope this helps!

Excellent point - one gets the feeling that some of these replies come from folks who may not know Berkeley all that well (this from a current Berkeleyan/former San Franciscan).

A minor point - I believe it's the Bancroft Hotel that's the Julia Morgan building - the Durant is a lot bigger and more standard older hotel architecture, though very nice in its own way.

Actually, it turns out I was thinking of the Berkeley City Club Hotel and Spa (formerly the Berkeley Women's Club), which is also on Durant. I was thrown off by the poster's description of the Durant as "serene" -- I wouldn't characterize either the crowd at the hotel or the neighborhood that way, and certainly Telegraph Ave. is just as "gritty" -- if not more so -- as Shattuck (Shattuck has all those restaurants and theaters bringing people to that area).

Personally, I don't think the Durant Hotel has any advatages over the Shattuck and it's quite a bit farther from CP.

I stand by my earlier endorsement of the Durant as a more "serene" place to stay than either the French Hotel or the Shattuck. This endorsement was shaped by
the experience and feedback of many friends and relatives who have visited me in Berkeley, and my knowledge of this city where I live and have lived for over 15 years (most of which only a few blocks from Chez Panisse...)

It is not directly on Telegraph, it is further uphill. It has charm, character, history and is similarly priced as the French Hotel, which is a building with rooms overlooking parking lots, doesn't look or feel like a hotel but charges about $100 per night. The Durant is more connected with the Berkeley campus, which one of the best destinations in the Bay Area and the source of inspiration and enlightment of the founder of Chez Panisse.

From my personal perspective, it would be a shame to just restrict a visit to Berkeley to C.P. and its immediate vicinity. The dining experience would be greatly enriched with a slight detour.

I'm sorry, but I have to take exception to the tone of these responses. This thread, like many, went in a lot of indirect and interesting directions--out to Oliveto, up to the Claremont, out to the Marina.

This wasn't because we can't read or follow directions or know where Shattuck is. It's because we've had good experiences with friends and relatives staying in those hotels, or we think that someone who will fly up for dinner at Chez Panisse might be similarly adventurous about the rest of his trip.

The responses may or may not be helpful to the original poster; it's for him to decide whether it's worth it to rent a car. If I flew to LA or Seattle and someone recommended a choice farther than my original radius, I'd take it as information--someone's opinion, one of many. Isn't that the point of this site?

None of us can speak for Paul S., obviously. I can say that when I ask a fairly specific question and get responses that are outside the scope of what I asked for, it is frustrating to me. In my experience, when people want expansive information, they ask expansive questions.

I goofed - the Bancroft Hotel was designed by Walter Steilberg who worked with Julia Morgan. It's still a wonderful building.

If you're not very familiar with the East Bay, it would be a shame to just squat around in the gourmet ghetto (area around C.P.). The French Hotel is not particularly cheap, and it is surrounded by two parking lots (a supermarket's and a bank's). You're only a 5 minute cab ride to the Durant Hotel just south of campus (or a 15 minute walk through campus), a campus institution which I believe is as expensive but is more of a real hotel than the misnamed French Hotel. The Bancroft Hotel (formerly a sorority) is a bit more charming and smaller but the service is spotty. In any case, I second the endorsement of Cafe Strada, another campus institution.

The Shattuck Hotel is somewhat closer to CP and is not bad, but it's right downtown Berkeley, which some visitors find a bit gritty, while the Durant, only 4 blocks uphill, offers more serene surroundings.

If you're not on a super-tight budget, I would urge you to stay at the glorious Claremont Hotel. Fantastic views, lovely clubby resort setting (pool, tennis). Well worth the extra 50% over the Durant. Cabs will whisk you to CP in 10 minutes. If you stay there, have breakfast in their dining room; it's one of the top 5 views in the bay area.

Other breakfasts:
Like bookstores and record stores, the assortment of breakfast options in Berkeley is amazing. There is a place for every shape, form or mood. I could list about 30-40 good places. The best is probably Bette's diner, but it is out of the way in West Berkeley about 1-2 miles out. If you want a breakfast near CP, the best option might be Chester's on Vine and Walnut, for its Bay View deck and good waffles. The sight of the Golden Gate arches glowing over the blue waters on a crisp Berkeley morning as you sip your coffee is not to be passed by a visitor...

Another option: stay in downtown SF and take BART to CP, especially if you're flying into SFO. The BART ride is only 23 minutes long, and the restaurant is about 7-8 blocks from the station. This option is attractive as vacancy rates are very high in nice hotels around Union Square; you will be able to get a good rate.

Bon voyage!

If they were doing a weekend trip, I would agree with you, but as I read the message it sounds like a short trip up with just time for dinner, leaving shortly after next morning's breakfast. On that basis, I think staying within walking distance from CP would be desirable.

One more idea:

Stay at the Shattuck Hotel and eat at La Note a couple blocks down. La Note's a really cute French sort of place with yummy sounding pancakes. (I've only eaten there once several years ago but I think they had lemon ginger pancakes and other ones on the menu.) And of course the ever popular Venus is nearby.

If I understand you, that you're flying in and taking BART, this sounds like the best idea to me.

The Claremont is not walking distance from either BART or CP. The hotels south of campus are a bit of a hike -- probably more than you would want to do after a nice dinner.

The Shattuck Hotel is right next to the Shattuck BART station, and there's lots of good chow in the surrounding area. The walk to CP is longish but pleasant.

I agree--geographically, it makes no sense to send them way the heck across town when there's a tremendous wealth of great food right around CP. The Shattuck is maybe 7 or 8 blocks--close to a mile, but eminently walkable, especially after you've eaten at all the places people have suggested.

One more rec: the original Peet's--the Mother Church to those of us who believe--is at Walnut and Vine, more or less around the corner from CP.

The Bancroft Hotel is across the street from the UC campus (Bancroft nr. College) and next door to Caffe Strada, where the coffee is quite good and the people-watching is superb (you MUST sit outside). The Bancroft is not posh but it's a Craftsman-style gem. It's quite walkable to Chez Panisse if you cut across the campus.

Breakfast: Saul's if you like deli-style breakfast (the lox, onions, and eggs is particularly nice), Fatapple's at the corner of Martin Luther King and Rose if you're looking for more traditional American-style (the pancakes are wonderful).

I second Fatapples! For places within walking distance from CP, it's very good, comfortable and reasonably priced.

Some one mentioned La Note, which is fun if you're a total francophile. But, the service can be a bit snotty (which at a breakfast stop is ridiculous) and their prices are a bit steep for what you get.

[BeanBoy]

Fatapples?? No way!

Fatapples is just like going to Denny's except you get to pay about $4 more and you get to wait in line forever. Don't bother.

I'm a Motel 6 gal so I'll go by what I've heard about.

As mentioned before the Claremont and French Hotel are good options. There's also Gramma's Rose Garden Inn (they probably offer a breakfast, too) and the Bancroft Club Hotel (I remember seeing "Junior" filmed here once upon a time). Both are in the neighborhood south of UC Berkeley.

Breakfasts at Saul's deli next to Black Oak used to be pretty good. Might be worth checking out.

Oliveto has a new breakfast menu that you might want to check out. I haven't tried it yet, but am hoping to soon. There's a breakfast pizza on the menu with an egg and pancetta that looks wonderful. (Someone was eating one they this morning and I had to resist asking them if I could have a slice), housemade granola, polenta, frittata, fresh pastries--sticky buns, and sometimes donuts muffins which are awesome--,fresh-squeezed blood orange juice. I also love the coffee there. It can get a little pricey--I think the pizza is $10, but sounds like your having a special occasion so why not make the most of it. If you end up staying at the Claremont you can walk down the hill to Oliveto in the morning--it's a long walk, but a nice one. Enjoy.

Just keep in mind that Oliveto's is nowhere near walking distance from Chez Panisse--it's in the Rockridge neighborhood of Oakland.

The two places are 10 blocks and a 5 minute BART ride apart.

According to Mapquest, it's 3.23 miles and 11 minutes by car from the corner of Shattuck and Cedar (Chez Panisse) to the corner of College and Shafter (Oliveto). There are two BART stops (and a transfer) between the Downtown Berkeley Station (4 blocks or so from CP) and the Rockridge station (across the street from Oliveto). It would certainly take more than 5 minutes even with the best of timing.

It is 1.06 miles from the corner of Claremont & Ashby (where the lovely Claremont Resort is located) to Oliveto, and 2.70 miles to CP.

Oliveto cafe is a lovely place to have breakfast, and if it's a special occasion (and money isn't a problem) the Claremont is beautiful (you can even throw in a spa treatment and a game of tennis). Neither of these places are terribly convenient to CP or the gourmet ghetto, but you could easily take a cab (as has been mentioned) from the resort to dinner, and the walk to Oliveto is through a beautiful neighborhood studded with craftsmen homes (no, not all of Oakland is scary.)

Link: http://www.claremontresort.com/

Wew, I stand corrected! You did your research. I forgot about the transfer from Rockridge, without which the Bart ride would have been little over 5 minutes.

This reminds me of a story about the Claremont. There used to be a strict rule in Berkeley for alcohol licenses which banned serving alcohol within 1 mile of campus.

Some entreprising civil engineering student went out and measured the exact distance between the Claremont hotel and the edge of campus and found the distance to be a hair over 1 mile, hence allowing the Claremont to acquire a liquor license. Apparently he was rewarded with free drinks for life (I wonder how this affected his lifespan...)

Have you tried the breakfast at Olivettos?

Actually, IIRC, *she* got free drinks for life. Great story, though.

I just wanted to make this thread longer.

Actually, since it has digressed into a larger discussion of Berkeley and North Oakland food in general, I figured I would put in my two cents.

Per the specific question, there is only ONE correct answer, eat at CP, stay at French Hotel. Goto Peets the following morning. Pick up some cheese and a baguette at the Cheeseboard for the plane ride home.

As for Berkeley in general, I have always been confused as to why they call that strip of shattuck the gourmet ghetto...

I've never been to the downstairs CP, but I will take it on faith that it is good. The upstairs has horribly disappointed me thrice and I will not be going back.

-Bistro Liason is good as a neighborhood place, but it ain't worth a trip.
-Cheeseboard is good, but the cheese shop at market hall in rockridge is better.
-Cha am is good, but not great.
-Sauls is decent bay area deli, but you don't come to the bay area for deli. It is a pale imitation of east coast deli. Save the deli trips for nyc.
-Downtown (Addison & Shattuck) disappointed me, and they were rude. Sucks, since it's 5 blocks from my house.
-Venus - I've been twice and liked the vibe and the food. Not great, but comfy.

Am I missing something? Where are the rest of the restaurants that make up the ghetto? Oh well.

Rest of Berkeley...
I like Cafe Fanny for brunch, if you can handle that fact that they charge 10 bucks for toast, eggs and juice. Its acme toast, really good eggs, and fresh blood orange juice. Plus its next to Acme bakery and Kermit.

Fourth street is nice, but I think Bette's is overrated and not worth the hour wait. On fourth street, I would have lunch at Cafe Rouge (the best burger i've had in the bay area) and then browse the shops (esp codys). I've heard good things about O Chame.

Ajanta on Solano is really good. A great date place, since I seem to meet a lot of vegiitarians. Alas.

Oakland
The best breakfasts in the EB are at Rick and Anne's or if you want some soul, Lois the Pie Queen.

I've never been impressed with Oliveto's for dinner, except for a stuffed loin of rabbit one time. I think they wrapped it up jelly roll style with bread crumbs and sage and then roasted it in the wood oven. That was fantastic. I love their downstairs cafe because i can sit outside eat pastries and drink illy cafe. (i have a thing for outside cafe type places)

I lament the decline of Citron which used to be my favorite east bay restaurant.

Shen Hua, Sabuy Sabuy (specifically for the catfish and eggplant dish), and Dona Tomas (for the carnitas) are my favorites. Much better bang for your buck than the "fancy" places.

I find A Cote a little weird and overly trendy. Not worth the wait.

I'm not a fan of chicago pizza, but if you like it, i guess zachery's pizza is worth a visit.

Jeez, that was lengthy. Well, Mr. Berkeley vistor, I hope you have a good trip, and pray that CP downstairs is better than the upstairs.

Cheers!

Link: http://josho.com/schnooks1.htm

Actually, I have not tried their breakfast (at least not their hot breakfast.)

I haven't gone to Oliveto cafe since they raised their prices $2 on every item on the menu (which wasn't cheap to begin with.) I work in the area, and I used to go once a week for lunch. I have had their breakfast pastries and they are very good (they make an excellent currant and oat scone.)

I used to get pizza for lunch regularly, and they were just about always excellent. I would assume that the breakfast pizza would be great as well. (I don't know about you, but you put pancetta on just about anything and I'm gonna like it...)

A somewhat less benign legacy of the one mile limit is that my Berkeley neighborhood is now blessed with four liquor stores in the three blocks of University Avenue between Acton St. (one mile from campus) and San Pablo Avenue (not counting Andronico's, which is on the east side of Acton). Fortunately, the store which was largest, scuzziest, and scariest is slated to be converted to a synagogue!

May I suggest that the problem with people giving posts that don't directly answer the question posed isn't so much about what they say. It's about whether they're saying it to actually be useful to the person asking the question or to demonstrate their own knowledge. Admittedly a hard call, I've probably been on the wrong side of it sometimes, but it happens and shouldn't.

I wouldn't be quite so hard on folks who are enthusiastic about sharing their knowledge. However, when they start to stray away from the question asked, it would be better to start a new thread. Lots of stuff has been posted here that would be of general interest to someone looking to spend a day exploring the east bay food delights. But the messages might go unread since the subject heading indicates near Chez Panisse.

So let's try to start new threads when the subject changes.

Since I was the one who got snippy, I just want to explain that my concern is that for someone coming in from out of town, who isn't familiar with the area, the answers can be misleading and confusing, and therefore not very helpful.

In addition, the question "where to have breakfast in Berkeley" has been discussed exhaustively: refocusing it on a specific area, i.e., near Chez Panisse, is one way to add new information and to look at the existing data in a new way, but the more generic the discussion gets, the less valuable it becomes, IMHO.

Doesn't the primary usefulness of this board precisely reside in the acquisition and sharing of the knowledge and experiences about food and related subjects?

As is the case in any rich conversation, there is a natural tendency for the threads to develop and expand in related topics. In this case however, the different itineraries and suggestions are only the reflection of different travel approaches and perspectives. Many travelers like to make an extra effort when visiting a destination to enrich their experience (hence the ubiquity of the term "worth a detour" in travel guides...)

There is no need to denigrade posters or to speculate about their motivations in sharing information.

"11 minutes by car"? Maybe if Mapquest was making the trip at 3 in the morning. During the hours of daylight it's more like 20-25 minutes. BART is a much better alternative, and if you don't feel like strolling the eight or so blocks from Berkeley BART to Chez P, cabs are usually thick on the ground.

Glad you're coming, enjoy your time here.

11 minutes by car sounded about right to me. Unless you're travelling on College between 5 and 6 p.m. Or during the day on a weekend. Or on a day ending in "y".

Telegraph is a much faster option anyway.

Here's Oliveto's web site!

Link: http://oliveto.com/basic.html

For breakfast, I would just go to The Bakeshop (~4 blocks south of CP on Shattuck) and have pastries and coffee. Everything I've had there is good, but I'm a sucker for the cheese croissants.

Claremont Hotel - grand scale, expensive yes, but not a rip off. French Hotel - right across the street from Chez P., noisy but superior proximity.

Breakfast is a dicey topic. Main floor of French Hotel is Espresso Roma. They respect milk and crema, just don't let them put the nectar in a paper cup. Pastry right down the street at the Cheeseboard Collective. You are in the zone in this neighborhood. Overpriced used cookbooks are available at Black Oak Books. Classic diner breakfast experience is available at Bette's Oceanview - no view, just the district - on 4th Street. Plenty of marked up retail merchandise in this neighborhood. Check out Sur la Table and Cafe Rouge butcher counter while you're there. If you stay at the Claremont there is a hearty place called Rick and Ann's that is passable. Peet's coffee and Bread Garden are also in this neck of the woods - morning buns are worth it, but can't speak for the rest. While you're scratching around Berkeley you might want to check out the intersection of Hopkins and Monterey - sometimes known as the Gourmet Ghetto. Grab a cab or drive to Cafe 817 and Ratto's on Washington next to downtown Oakland.

Enjoy. This is a beginning.

I've had relatives stay at the French Hotel and really like it. It's not luxurious, but it's good and right there across the street from Chez Panisse. If you have time to look around the neighborhood, go to Black Oak Books and such, that's fun too.

The French Hotel has a very busy cafe on the ground floor, but it's not really a place to get a meal. Saul's and Fat Apple's are your leading alternatives in the neighborhood. If you want a (pleasant)throwback for (vegetarian) scrambles and the like, there's Smokey Joe's Cafe a block away "where cryptic cruciverbalists meet to eat."