168758 Fri Oct 17 11:49:01 -0700 2003 37 14 Washington DC & Baltimore Area 0 903081 Up on the website, print edition in Sunday's magazine. Star ratings? Eh, whatever. "To achieve four-star status, a restaurant doesn't have to spend a fortune on flowers or serve food on gold plates. It simply has to do what it does extraordinarily well -- to the point of taking your breath away." And with the same breath, the 4-stars are: Citronelle, Maestro, Laboratorio. Joe's Noodle House only rates a 2-star, but I guess we're talking "foodie stars" here and not "chowhound stars". I could do without either, to be frank. Let reviews speak for themselves. Wonder if this was done because this may be the layout for his Washington dining book due out soon? Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/entertainment/new_features/restaurants/index03.htm Fri Oct 17 11:49:01 -0700 2003 0 tbear 1 903089 Pretty standard, re-cycled list. Though I don't know Zest or 88 downtown. And I'm surprised Paradiso didn't get the pizza nod. Nice to see Sea Catch finally getting some well deserved recognition for a change. Fri Oct 17 13:19:04 -0700 2003 903081 0 Pappy 2 903093 88 is very good - on 18th Street, right below Florida Ave. Interesting menu, nice atmosphere, outdoor dining in warm weather. Fri Oct 17 13:40:23 -0700 2003 903089 0 Nancy 2 903108 ..and I'm surprised Ella's got any stars - BLEAH! Fri Oct 17 15:39:13 -0700 2003 903089 0 Rosco 3 903143 Yes, that was odd. I've heard more & better things about Matchbox pizza than Ella's... Sat Oct 18 18:56:52 -0700 2003 903108 0 Lauryn 2 903138 After having tried both Pizza Paradiso and 2 Amys, I am now firmly in the 2 Amys camp. The crust is so thin and crackly, the flavor and aroma delicately earthy. I tried the pizza d'o.c., and I was surprised at how much I appreciated the mozzarella di bufalo. Sat Oct 18 11:56:52 -0700 2003 903089 0 Steve 1 903090 "a restaurant doesn't have to spend a fortune..." although I notice all 4-star winners cost a small fortune to dine there. So never mind about a restaurant doing what it does very well, even if it's only $10 an entree instead of $20. But past winner Inn at Lil' Washington didn't make 4 stars! Fri Oct 17 13:25:34 -0700 2003 903081 0 Lauryn 2 903095 That's exactly my reaction to it. I'm pretty disappointed that Tom has chosen to hand out ratings Michelin-style, where the actual deliciousness of the food is not the single most contributing factor, and may even take a back seat to the atmosphere that a restaurant creates. I guess it's what the general public wants, or at least those fortunate few who can afford to dine at the 4-stars on a regular basis. But then again I wouldn't trust my tastebuds to many of those that fit in the latter category. Fri Oct 17 13:45:40 -0700 2003 903090 0 tbear 3 903121 I think the star system is handy and makes sense. One stars are only for if you pass it on the way home or it's two doors down from your apartment (perfect description of Addis Ababa), and read the review to see what's best. Two and three stars mean seek them out if you're in the neighborhood. Four stars means plan for a night out and set your standards high. It's just a short-hand. Fri Oct 17 17:26:33 -0700 2003 903095 0 kelvet 4 903147 So what's the short-hand for being listed and no stars, eat there only if you are already sitting at a table? Sat Oct 18 21:38:06 -0700 2003 903121 0 Steve 1 903094 Only one Thai place, and it's in Vienna Virginia? How disappointing. Fri Oct 17 13:42:19 -0700 2003 903081 0 alex r 1 903100 I think people are missing the point of the guide this year. It wasn't an attempt to name the best of the best. It was to give a cross section of places - hence the appearance of two places with no stars. Just because the Inn at Little Washington wasn't on doesn't mean that it isn't (or is) a four star restaurant. And just because anther deserving place is not on the list doens't mean that it was slighted in any way. Fri Oct 17 14:27:45 -0700 2003 903081 0 bilrus 2 903104 I don't think people are missing the point, but if it was meant as a cross-section it's not all that complete (one Thai place, one Ethiopian, six Italian, thirteen American?). I'm actually not really sure *what* the goal of this guide was. There's not much rhyme or reason to it. I've liked his past guides much better, even if they were a little "quirkier". From Tom's other reviews and especially his on-line chats, this looks like more of a "hot list" of many places that seem to pop up frequently with some lesser-knowns thrown in for comparison. However, it seems like the current list lacks some basis without a more comprehensive rundown of the area's offerings (as any coded rating system would). But then again, as I mentioned, perhaps these are just excerpts from (and a prelude to) his up-coming book Fri Oct 17 14:45:30 -0700 2003 903100 0 tbear 3 903105 I agree that this is not the best dining guide he has produced because it doens't give much "guidance". I personally like the idea of the star system though. It gives people a short hand guide to compare restaurants. And it gives people like us who care about food something to argue about. Fri Oct 17 15:01:04 -0700 2003 903104 0 bilrus 4 903106 Although I'm not a fan of the "star system" per se, I think to some extent the Post has to appeal to a wider readership than, say, this board. I think by doing it this way, they are reaching out to a broader population -- providing a quick guide for the person not interested in reading a full review or not into the food scene. And for the people more interested in food, can read the full review, or Tom's other reviews, and participate in his online chats. At the end of the day, he is a reviewer employed by a major US newspaper where the goal is to provide a service to the public and make money. Fri Oct 17 15:15:48 -0700 2003 903105 0 JoyS 5 903219 That's true. Seemed like a guide for people who just moved here and needed a place to take their parents when they come into town to see their new house. In general, though, the Post, as a major US newspaper, needs more than Tom S. The botch on the Eden Center restaurants is typical, in my experience, with his reviews. He'll rave about some awful place and miss the one next door that has fantastic food. He is only one man. Perhaps the chowhounds should inundate the Post with resumes. Tue Oct 21 11:59:28 -0700 2003 903106 0 Sallie 6 903312 The Post has another weekly food critic, Eve Zeibart, who writes in Friday's Weekend and who seems to be more interested in ethnic restaurants. There are also reviews by various people in the Thursday neighborhood weeklies. Wed Oct 22 12:54:35 -0700 2003 903219 0 monblatt 4 903107 True, true, bilrus. That's me always thinking about what I would like (which certainly does not include a majority of the Post readership!). Short hand guides can be dangerous in the wrong hands though. I do trust Tom enough not to lead his readers too far astray. Not everybody will go to Maestro just because Tom gives is 4 stars, but maybe sombody will say, "Honey, why don't we try this Hong Que place? The Post gave it 3 stars." :) Fri Oct 17 15:38:17 -0700 2003 903105 0 tbear 5 903132 ""but maybe sombody will say, "Honey, why don't we try this Hong Que place? The Post gave it 3 stars." "" And that would be wrong since it is about the worst place to eat in Eden Center and there is no mention of the best which is Huong Viet. Our Vietnamese chow friend Kathy showed us what that was all about and I continue to introduce many Caucasians to the true flavors of Vietnamese food at H-V, and not the dumbed down version at 4 sisters/daughters, whatever. Fri Oct 17 23:39:46 -0700 2003 903107 0 Roe 6 903183 I agree. My experience at Hong Que was absolutely awful. We ordered the VEGETARIAN spring rolls and after taking a bite of one, realized that ours had pork in it. As we keep kosher, we were extremely unhappy. Second, our caramel tofu had a very long black hair in it. Needless to say, we have never returned. Mon Oct 20 09:54:58 -0700 2003 903132 0 sbs 6 903239 Hey, I don't see a listing for H-V in the Eden Center directory. Does it have another name? Perhaps the list just isn't up to date. Suggestions on what to try? Trevor Tue Oct 21 14:38:42 -0700 2003 903132 0 Trevor 7 903260 Do a search from the main chowhound page--there are some excellent posts about Huong Viet--particularly elythak's posts about what her family likes there. There was also a chowhound meal there several months ago with some reports. One note: the restaurant is cash only. Tue Oct 21 17:17:26 -0700 2003 903239 0 mouse 6 903240 Hey, I don't see a listing for H-V in the Eden Center directory. Does it have another name? Perhaps the list just isn't up to date. Suggestions on what to try? Trevor Tue Oct 21 14:41:06 -0700 2003 903132 0 Trevor 1 903115 I worry that the star system will be misinterpreted. For example, one star indicates a "satisfactory exsperience" and Sietsema says that a one star place may do a handful of dishes well and that it may be nice to have one close to home or near work. Not destination dining, for sure, but sounds like not such a bad place to eat, maybe even on a regular basis. Unfortunately, I doubt that six months from now anyone will remember that one star places are satisfactory and in fact to be recommended on certain levels. One star is more likely to be read as a reason to avoid a restaurant rather than a recommendation to stop in for a great pupusa. Let's hope he includes a key to the star system with each review. Fri Oct 17 16:37:05 -0700 2003 903081 0 Jack Burden 2 903123 I agree, especially since the "Reader Ratings" sections of the Post's online restaurant descriptions/reviews also give you the option to grade on a 1 to 4 star scale, and THOSE reviews clearly use the "1 star equals sucky, 2 stars equals okay, etc." methodology. If Tom is going to try to educate the Post readership to learn a Michelin-style rating system rather than an American-style one, they'd be well advised to get rid of the stars currently on their reader reviews. That said, I didn't see any of his rankings that I particularly disagreed with, based on what I've read here on Chowhound and heard and experienced. If you're going with Michelin-style grading, there *should* be damn few four star places. Fri Oct 17 17:34:23 -0700 2003 903115 0 Nate Martin 1 903125 At first I thought he was only using stars with restaurants that he has reviewed himself then I noted that several of them (i.e. AV) have not, to the best of my knowledge, been subject of a review. His introduction does note that they are just examples to give an index for comparison among others. It is very common for newspapers and magazines to do this. Washingtonian does. Yet I believe that Washingtonian notes them as the 50 or 100 best or something like that so that similar to Michelin anything not starred (which is 99% of the restaurants) are literally not at that level. Still, these seem to be just a sampling that I am guessing will be updated and expanded over time as he continues to eat his way around D. C. For me the real question is whether the Post will have the complete "star system" or if we will have to buy his book to receive it. If the latter is true I may have some difficulty with that since the Post would seem to be just an advertisement for his book. Rather I would view the book as a compilation of everything that has PREVIOUSLY appeared in one form or another in the Post. But, again, this is just speculation. I really think his rating of restaurants is a good step and personally applaud him for it. I really like the idea of a star system or some system to establish a rating. Alternatively what either Gambero Rosso, Gayot, Gault Millau, Italian Touring Club, etc. all do is some kind of numerical rating system. I find it really helpful. Even Zagat does this. Failing anything with numbers stars would seem to be the only alternative if a rating is to be used. Several comments: 1. I personally no longer believe the Inn at Little Washington serves what I consider to be four star food. Yes, it is most definitly a four star experience as it should be at $148 prix fixe on Saturdays. But I believe to receive four stars it must be both food AND the experience. Just as Kinkead's was justifiably positioned with two stars (thank you, Tom!) I believe "The Inn" can learn a lesson and step resting on its expensive laurels by losing one. (Although he may have absolutely no intention of giving it anything less than four; this is just my using it as an example based on personal experiences.) Michelin does this. So do the others mentioned above. Often this helps the restaurant, allowing them to rethink their current direction. While I've raved about In 'n Out Burger on here I do not consider it a four star experience. Four star bites perhaps but not a four star experience. Pepe's Pizza in New Haven is the same way. Phenominally good but not four star overall even though I believe it is the best of its kind. It is here where we get into value judgments. I believe that for a restaurant to deliver the total four star experience comfort and other elements must enter into the equation in addition to food. The Luling City Market in Luling, Texas has smoked brisket equal to Peter Luger's in Brooklyn and an appropriate negative atmosphere. Still I wouldn't give it four stars. Three like Pepe's but not four. So for me, great food in a dump can still rate three stars but to go to four it must be more than just great food. Anyway, these are my own values and everyone's are different. But he nailed our three best restaurants, Citronelle, Laboratorio and Maestro. All three of them are THAT good! But I bet that I'm right about The Inn unless it's been a while since he was there or if his last visit was part of a special dinner. Fri Oct 17 17:41:19 -0700 2003 903081 0 Joe H. 2 903197 Two comments, one on Sietsema's guide and one on star systems in general. On the guide: I was astonished at how few restaurants are listed. I don't know if this is consistent with previous years' Post dining guides, but for example there were only three Chinese restaurants reviewed, 2 Vietnamese, 1 Ethiopian, 1 pizza, etc. This hardly gives enough breadth to serve as a useful review of the local dining scene. On stars: Food, decor, value, and service are very different things. IMHO a star or any other ranking system that collapses all into a single rating inherently compromises its value to the reader. Tonight I may be 99% interested in food, while somebody else may be mostly interested in service and or decor (e.g. Joe's vs. Auberge Chez Francoise). A good restaurant review system will rate these aspects separately, a la Zagat, so the user can actually use the ratings in his/her own particular selection process. After all, the only real reason to have ratings is to help someone who is selecting a restaurant he/she hasn't been to. Just my opinion Mon Oct 20 16:38:40 -0700 2003 903125 0 johnb 1 903129 There's a reason it's called 'mainstream media.' As if we needed proof, now more than ever, for how valuable a resource Chowhound is. The fault lies not in ourselves - but in the stars! Fri Oct 17 22:20:37 -0700 2003 903081 0 Steve 1 903142 Tommy picked a boring subject line for this dining guide. I recall ~13 years ago, Phyllis Richman reviewed in a Post guide 25 restaurants 25 years or older. Anyone remember that? List included Mama Ayesha's Calvert Cafe, Reeve's & Crisfield's. The nice thing about most of the 25 is that they were affordable, not expense-account... Sat Oct 18 18:52:11 -0700 2003 903081 0 Lauryn 2 903149 And all three that you mentioned are still in existence in one form or another. I wonder how many others from that list are still around... Sat Oct 18 22:56:37 -0700 2003 903142 0 mouse 3 903155 Speaking of old dining guides, the Green Tree in Leesburg still proudly displays a "best restaurants in the Washington area" from Washingtonian magazine --from 1976! The other places on the list are mostly classical French establishments. The Green Tree is the last survivor. Most of the others died at least ten years ago. While you are certainly free to scoff at the Green Tree and its "authentic 18th century recipes discovered after months of research at the Library of Congress," you can do a lot worse for a Thanksgiving buffet. Sun Oct 19 11:25:49 -0700 2003 903149 0 Bob W. 1 903236 It's interesting: his NYC reviews in the Village Voice are really outstanding and in keeping with the chowhound spirit. I've had dozens of great meals thanks to his "Top 100 Cheap Asian Restaurants" list alone--mostly in Brooklyn and Queens. This guide, on the other hand, seems a bit duller in style and a bit more conservative in selection. Surely we must have at least as many Ethiopian and Vietnamese restaurants in the greater DC area as in NYC, but we only get one recommendation for the former and two (relatively upscale) options for the latter. Sort of a shame that the only "cheap eats" list in DC is put out by the Washingtonian (and they don't seem to have changed the relatively hit-and-miss DC list much over the last several years). Ah well, guess that's half the reason I'm reading this webpage. Tue Oct 21 14:28:13 -0700 2003 903081 0 Trevor 2 903238 Not that surprising, actually, because it's two different Sietsema's: Tom (WaPo) and Robert (VV). Their styles, predilections, focus and writing have almost nothing in common. Tue Oct 21 14:34:10 -0700 2003 903236 0 Marty L. 3 903241 Doh! (Slapping my forehead). I'll be sure to pay closer attention to the by-line next time. I wonder what the relation is. Is it possible that two unrelated Sietsemas rose to prominence in the food-critic industry? Ah well, we could definitely use a RS down here. Trevor Tue Oct 21 14:44:28 -0700 2003 903238 0 Trevor 4 903247 According to Tom S., who gets asked this from time to time on his WashPost chats, at most they are very very very distant cousins, basically unrelated. Tue Oct 21 15:40:56 -0700 2003 903241 0 Bob W. 2 903258 The DC area has many more Vietnamese and Ethiopian restaurants than NY. Both immigrant populations are much larger and more organized and established here in DC, which makes for better food. My Ethiopian family from NY and Philly makes regular roadtrips to DC to get "the real thing"--so, contrary to the star system, these restaurants are certainly worth crossing town for. The same can be said for the delights of Eden Center. I rent a car periodically, just so I can make a trip out there to go to Huong Viet and some of the other shops. I just don't think Sietsema is strong when it comes to restaurants geared toward foreign or immigrant tastes... Perhaps he hasn't travelled enough outside of the US or he prefers to promote moderately Americanized renditions that will be more pleasing to the Post's allegedly risk-averse demographic... Tue Oct 21 17:10:49 -0700 2003 903236 0 mouse 3 903261 He's traveled plenty to W Europe (esp Paris), as evidenced by his occasional dining "postcards" in The Post... Tue Oct 21 17:40:49 -0700 2003 903258 0 Lauryn 2 903290 Uhh... That's a different Sietsema in the VV Wed Oct 22 11:29:11 -0700 2003 903236 0 das