168114 Mon Jul 14 08:38:03 -0700 2003 12 14 Washington DC & Baltimore Area 0 899297 Went Saturday night, 7:30 reservation. Big place, very contemporary. High ceilings, squarish furniture in light green and slate blue, floor to ceiling windows looking out onto Constitution. Very nice white linens, quality silver and good crystal that is swapped out to match the wine (Reidel I believe, Joe). And I have to say, they're doing a heck of a good business. They easily turned every table (in the main dining room) on a Saturday night in July at what many would say was a pretty undesirable location for Saturday night traffic. There were only two of so tastings were limited. My Corn Soup ($12) was perhaps, the single worst thing I've ever had in a restaurant. It was a bowl of bright yellow glue and devoid of any taste at all. The "avocado foam" did little to add flavor. My date's Salad ($9?) was unremarkable, over-dressed, and what was billed as pancetta was clearly Oscar Mayer bacon. My Veal Chop ($33) and her Shell Steak on the Bone ($31) were both very good, excellent portions, and cooked exactly to medium rare as ordered. As they come unadorned, we ordered Fries ($8?) which were limp and vapid and Roasted Chanterelles ($12) which were small, dry and rubbery. The Wine Steward helped me chose an excellent Pinot Noir from Williamette Valley ($76), though the name escapes me, from an enormous list of American wines from all over the country which included many names I did not recognize, many reserve bottlings, and every varietal produced. Service was average at best. We seemed to have two head waiters, and I was never sure which one was the lead, plus that meant two people had to continually interupt conversation to ask if we were ready to order yet, how was everything, etc. Obviously I'm not rushing back. I guess the Hill needed a place like this, the bar/lounge area should do well, but it's not worth my going out of the way for. But there was one oddity. Despite, as I mentioned, one of the largest and most complete wine lists I've seen in this city, if I read correctly, CP's offer FREE corkage for American wines, and $25 for foreign bottles. I can not understand why any restaurant would allow corkage at all, but FREE? It makes no sense. Restaurants do two things, they 1) sell food, and 2) sell wine. Their profit margin is largely derived from the latter. They're not in the business of renting glasses. Certainly they would object to someone bringing their own food. Nor do I understand those who would take advantage of this and deprive a restaurant of it's opportunity to make money. The restaurant business is tough enough. Imagine, and I'm sure it happens, if a customer were to bring in a bottle that the restaurant has on it's list, simply because they could avoid the markup! Well hell! I'll just open a package store next door and all the patrons can run out before the food arrives, pick up a bottle of wine, and not pay CP's prices! That's crazy. Mon Jul 14 08:38:03 -0700 2003 0 Pappy 1 899308 I gotta say, Pappy, I don't know about them giving away the margin with the free corkage. It sounds as though they're doing pretty well with the $9 salad, $8 fries, and $12 glue. Sorry you had such a costly disappointment. Mon Jul 14 13:22:13 -0700 2003 899297 0 Christina D 1 899312 Paps, many many restaurants make themselves wine-friendly by allowing diners to bring their own for a corkage fee -- some are more modest than others. I think that offering no fee for American wines is a spectacular bonus for the customer who prefers to choose and bring their own wine in advance, especially those who cellar. I'm happy to rent their glasses at that price. On the other hand, $25 is pretty steep for non-American wines (is this freedom fries issue?). As a former DC-er now living in Philly, I have so many fabulous BYOBs (with no corkage fee) to choose from that I get a little spoiled (and shocked) when I have to order wines with 200-400% markups. Seems to me that the real issue is that the food isn't worth the price, even on expense account. Mon Jul 14 14:26:44 -0700 2003 899297 0 Ellen 2 899314 Charlie Palmer's has made a big point about having an all-American wine list with at least one from every state, probably with the expectation of "political" diners coming in from "the Hill". This policy seems in keeping with that. And don't most places with a corkage fee only allow you to bring in bottles if they aren't on the restaurant's wine list? Mon Jul 14 14:58:52 -0700 2003 899312 0 bilrus 3 899317 I don't know whether that is a universal rule but have heard about that kind of restriction. I usually bring my own to bring your owns and buy from the rest. There are some oneophiles who can't live without their own cellars, especially for special occasions, and they probably aren't bringing bottles that are on everyone's wine list anyway. Mon Jul 14 17:04:20 -0700 2003 899314 0 Ellen 3 899432 Hi CP's doesn't have such a rule to my knowledge. My party brought 4 bottles recently, was charged a fee for the last 2, and one bottle was on the list. Not a problem. Y'all should come to Philly with your good wine--our horrible liquor laws have produced a plethora of BYOBs with no corkage fees whatsover. Some of our very best restaurants are BYOB (ie. Django). Wed Jul 16 23:47:11 -0700 2003 899314 0 sara 4 899433 And you philly-ites should come down here to buy the wine to take to your BYOBs. The wine selection here is light-years beyond what I could find in Philly! Thu Jul 17 00:22:13 -0700 2003 899432 0 ex-philly 5 899483 Correct--I already do. I stock up in the DC area take it home to Philly and enjoy it at all of our lovely BYOBs, no corkage fees required. I understand it's our horrific liquor laws that created the need (on the business side anyway) for the BYOBs, but still am not sure why it's not more widespread in other cities. Thu Jul 17 20:46:42 -0700 2003 899433 0 sara 1 899316 "Nor do I understand those who would take advantage of this and deprive a restaurant of it's opportunity to make money." At those menu prices, I do not understand diners who do not take advantage of their corkage policy. Mon Jul 14 16:58:59 -0700 2003 899297 0 jjm 1 899333 One of my big frustrations about dining out is the high cost of wine. It drives me crazy to look at a wine list and see some everyday plonk I've bought for $5.99 at Rodman's priced at $28--(it was Pepperwood Grove at Clyde's). Recently, I've started bringing my own wine and paying a corkage fee, and I get to drink much better wine that way. We went to Kinkead's for my hub's birthday last week. When I called for a reservation, I asked about corkage--$15, and the wine can't be on thir list. Is their list posted online? No. How is one to know, then? Well, I could say what I intended to bring, and she'd look at the list for me. Hmm, I had a 1999 Landmark Overlook chardonnay which would probably go nicely with whatever fish or seafood we'd order. How about that? She put me on hold for a while. There was a Landmark chardonnay on their list, but it was a 2000 and not the Overlook. She'd have to check with management. On hold again. She came back with the verdict--it wasn't on the list, so it was okay to bring. The wine from home was treated very well, set in a marble chiller on the table, opened and poured for us by the waiter. It was a delightful match with our food, with just enough acidity and fresh apple fruit to balance the rich, buttery quality that gave it elegance. I did peruse the Kinkead's winelist--their 2000 Landmark chard was $65. I paid $22 for my bottle at Costco a year and a half ago. With the corkage, my WS 92-point wine cost me $37 to have with my meal, about what I would have paid for a bottle of wine retailing for ten or twelve dollars if I'd ordered from their list. It might be difficult to stop and pick up a bottle at a wineshop on the way. Without access to a restaurant's winelist, how could one be sure to buy something not on the list? Corkage is a great win-win policy-- we still spent $168 (with tip) on our dinner for three, and it was a weeknight when there were many empty tables. If we hadn't brought our own good wine, we might have foregone wine and had Pellegrino rather than add an extra forty or fifty dollars to the check. Tue Jul 15 00:00:58 -0700 2003 899297 0 zora 2 899337 I agree that corkage is a win-win policy. The point of corkage is to get the diner into the restaurant and have them buy a good meal. I am much more likely to pay for the more expensive meal if I am not also having to pay $50-100 for a good bottle of wine. If you look further down the messages, you will find a thread that talks about the places that allow corkage. I have gotten into the habit of taking wine with me whenever possible. Why, two reasons: 1) I don't like paying obscenely high markups on wine and 2) I have wines in my cellar that are not available in most restaurants. To be truthful, the second reason is the most relevant. I have been collecting wine for a while and I often have wines that are low production, hard to find wines. I can go into a good restaurant and bring a bottle of wine that is just not available without paying an arm and a leg. A wine I paid $35 for 5-10 years ago will cost as much as $150 on the open market today because it is rare. How much 1982 Bordeaux do you see on a wine list. Or for that matter even 1998 Aussie Shiraz. If it is there it is very expensive. Does the restaurant lose money if I bring the wine, of course not. I pay corkage, and I leave a bigger tip for the waiter because he/she is not getting a the benefit of my wine purchase on the bill. A second reason is that many restaurants move so much wine that there is only young, not really ready to drink wine on the list. I don't want to commit infanticide on a bottle of 2000 Cal Cab when I have a nice '94 or '97 available to drink. I have been in restaurants where the WS description is on the wine list. It says, hold until 2005, but the waiter says that they can't keep it in stock because everyone just sees the 93 point score and has to have that wine for dinner that night. Here's to corkage and let's have a '95 Chateau Beau-Séjour Bécot St.-Emilion with dinner tonight. Tue Jul 15 08:27:50 -0700 2003 899333 0 dinwiddie 3 899381 Would that I had a proper cellar to age wines for years under ideal climatic conditions... four to six year-old wines that I have kept in the coolest closet in the house for a couple of years is about the best I can do-- I think I own the only single family house in NW DC without a basement. But I have learned to decant younger wines and to search out the best QPR treasures I can find. I wouldn't say no to a well-aged 1er or grand cru bordeaux, that's for sure. Tue Jul 15 17:20:36 -0700 2003 899337 0 zora 4 899389 You can buy a decent 32-50 bottle wine cabinet for a relatively good price if you look. They are often on sale and usually you can find good prices on the net. I actually got one at Home Depot several years back. Wed Jul 16 08:16:49 -0700 2003 899381 0 dinwiddie