166655 Sun Dec 15 20:21:07 -0800 2002 9 14 Washington DC & Baltimore Area 0 890513 For those who are into serious wine the Costco in Sterling has eleven magnums left (I bought one) of '98 Caymus Special Selection Cabernet for $119.95. This is not one of the best years for this wine but, still it IS Caymus Special Select (!). On Winesearcher and WineCommune it is selling for $300 and up for the same magnum. This is also the same store that I found 8 bottles of '99 Chateau St. Jean Cinq Cepages (Wine Spectator's #2 wine of year) for $59.95 on Thursday (I bought all of them.) On Wine Commune it is already well over $100 per bottle and Winesearcher lists it as high as $140 per bottle. Costco has dramatically upgraded their wine selection over the last year or so and occasionally, as now, there are real "bargains" out there. I realize that bargain is a relative term but for serious wine like this when you can buy it for half of its regular price it's worth considering. The Total in Sterling is selling '98 Caymus SS for $149 per 750 ml bottle (!) and the Total in McLean had sold out of '98 Chateau St. Jean. They sold it for $109. Sun Dec 15 20:21:07 -0800 2002 0 Joe H. 1 890516 Do you think the market is getting tired of paying exorbitantly high prices for California wine? Cinq Cepages was a twenty-five dollar, easily available bottle before the Wine Spectator did what they did a few years ago. R. Mon Dec 16 08:23:36 -0800 2002 890513 0 Ramon 2 890517 I thoroughly agree. It was ten years ago that I could buy Caymus' regular cab for about $21 or 22. In the space of about three years it tripled as have Italian Super Tuscans. Solaia in Italy was 120 lira ($55) and now it is $130 Euros or more. I've found that I drink more Washington state merlot than California although Quilceda creek's cabernet is another one that has gone through the roof and Leonetti is up to $65 for their merlot. Still L'Ecole 41 and Chateau St. Michelle are real values. The '99 Cinq Cepages really is delicious. Costco had it at $59 and honestly it seemed worth it. But overall wine has gone through the roof. When the economy tightens this is one of the first things that people cut back on. Last, this is where a lot of restaurants have really chosen to gouge their customers such as The Inn at Little Washington, the French Laundry and locally Galileo where '97 Solaia was offered at $950 for a 750ml bottle. Mon Dec 16 09:31:00 -0800 2002 890516 0 Joe H. 3 890519 Joe, Thanks for sharing all these great bargains that you find. You are very generous with hard-to-find deals/sales/outlets for wines, ceramics, All-Clad, etc. I plan to use your advice about the Zegna outlet in Biella during my upcoming trip. On the subject of Italian wine prices, it is deplorable what has gone on over the past 3-4 years. Good chiantis that used to be $15 are now selling for $50, during a period in which the dollar has gone up. The importers are clearly taking huge profits. I wonder what they will do now that the dollar is coming back to earth? Mon Dec 16 09:42:49 -0800 2002 890517 0 Jeremy M 4 890520 Brioni has one outlet in all of the world and it is in Pescara on the east coast of Italy about 150 miles directly east of Rome. BRIONI OUTLET Via Aldo Moro 3 Montesilvano-Pescara 085/448 3288 There is also a book you can buy through Amazon called Designer Bargains in Italy. It lists about 11 outlets and shops but to arrive at this number there are a lot of wine shops and food sources listed which, for those on this board, are a real plus. It does NOT list the Brioni outlet (I called them and asked before my trip to Italy two weeks ago.) but does list the Zegna in Biella. That particular outlet has a sale starting the first of January and two years ago it was about 20cent on the U. S. dollar. It's hit or miss so don't go looking for the suit of your dreams but you will probably find shirts, sweater, socks, etc. at incredible prices with a selection that's still more than worthwhile. I was in the Zegna outlet near Orladno three weeks ago and it was very strong on shirts (all are $100) and slacks ($149) but very, very weak on suits and sportcoats. The same time last year they had a tremendous selection of both. During our trip we went to the Prada outlet south of Florence. It was worth it, even for myself. Half of their clothes are for men and this includes shoes, leather coats, etc. One of the best outlets I've ever been to. The men's line is called Helmut Lang. Deruta was the highlight of the trip and absolutely worth the one hour and 45 minute drive from Florence. This is a walled town at the top of a hill with about 25 to 30 small ceramic shops. At the bottom of the hill are another 30 to 40 including several that are very large. Most have their factories or workrooms nearby. Some of this is absolutely exquisite and worth the trip to Italy alone. We ended up shopping at Grazie (who also supply Neiman Marcus and Tiffany) where their selection was unbelievable. Essentially they can do anything in any color to match anything. Not just plates, bowls, cups, etc. but the most unbelievable wine jugs that are three feet high (painted the way you specify with "vin santo" or something else inscribed), casseroles, soup tureens, just on and on. The colors that they use on some of their pieces are expensive but just gorgeous. There is nothing on the internet or the few pieces you'll see in an American store just don't even begin to capture the exquisite beauty of some Deruta ceramics. There are several stores that can EVEN PAINT YOUR PORTRAIT ON A LARGE PLATE THAT WILL HAVE ONE OF A NUMBER OF PATTERNS ENCIRCLING IT. There are other towns that have ceramics including Florence but Deruta is a trip unto itself. If anyone on here goes remember my report on the international board for Il Postale in the Citta de Castello which I thought was the best Italian I have yet experienced anywhere. It is not very far out of the way going or coming from Florence to Deruta. Mon Dec 16 10:29:49 -0800 2002 890519 0 Joe H. 4 890536 importers taking huge profits? the dollar has tumbled over the last year. do you have some evidence of your assertion, regarding the importers greed? Mon Dec 16 18:03:12 -0800 2002 890519 0 j davis 5 890537 Based on what I saw a week ago in Firenze, Bologna and Milano it has more to do with the Italian wholesalers and retailers with little left over for the American importers to mark up. Over the years I cannot tell you how many hundreds of bottles of wine I have brought back on business trips from Italy. But no more. At least not based on the prices I saw. Some of this is already beginning to show up here such as the prices for some of the Super Tuscans. Again, these exhorbitant markups are originating on the other side of the Atlantic. For me one of the most distressing features is that I've done a lot of 36 to 48 hour trips where I would leave the U. S. and have one or two meetings and then return with little sleep. Part of the reward for this was stopping at an enoteca and buying as much wine as I could carry. All of it at half price or less. Those days, for the most part, are over. Mon Dec 16 18:27:46 -0800 2002 890536 0 Joe H. 6 890597 Yea these producers have seen the light. One "traditional" Barolo producer I am familiar with was recently lamenting his choice not to go "international" in style. He is hauling his stuff to his local customers in a Fiat Multipla; his "international" winemaking neighbors (part of the Marc diGrazia fold) just bought a BMW 7 series and a vacation home on the coast. So I don't think the wholesalers are the ones grabbing ALL the dollars. And on all but the most famous cache wines (like Solaia and Caymus for instance) retailers aren't grabbing the money either. It is too competitive- you could just go to the next guy who has it and see the $$ difference. I've never seen wild markups endemic in the retail side, at least not at reputable stores. The exception being Total WIne and More (Beltway and Corridor in MD). These guys revel in running loss leader ads in the paper on the "known" brands, then steering you to their own direct-import stuff that is marked up an easy 100% because they cut the wholesaler out. And if you want a prestige or cult wine, well, welcome to 200%, sucker. If they gotta pay full wholesale on it, they're going to gouge it. Wed Dec 18 09:07:36 -0800 2002 890537 0 pleiades 7 890605 We could also talk about the clippings from the WS and Parker and others where they list a specific year and rating and what is on the shelf is a different year. I don't think they do this quite as much as before but this has bothered me for several years. But you are exactly right about their loss leaders and their gouging. Wed Dec 18 10:54:04 -0800 2002 890597 0 Joe H. 5 890538 My only "evidence" is what I have seen during trips to Italy. During my last visit in October 2001, when one dollar was worth approximately Lit. 2200 (or .90 Euros), I purchased Fiano di Avellino and Campanaro by Feudi di San Gregorio for Lit. 12-15,000 (less than $7) and 45,000 (less than $20), respectively. Those wines were selling for $16-18 and $40-60 in NYC and DC at the time. I also was able to find the Tasca D'Alemerita Cabernet Sauvignon for Lit. 55,000 ($25ish). I've seen that wine selling for more than $60 over here. I could go on and on. Even when you factor in shipping and tariffs, that strikes me as an excessive mark-up by US importers and retailers. Even if prices have remained steady over the past year as the dollar and euro have reached parity, I still think that the mark-up is excessive. If there are hidden costs that I'm unaware of, I'd be happy to be educated. Mon Dec 16 19:44:04 -0800 2002 890536 0 Jeremy M