150126 Thu Dec 30 09:50:29 -0800 2004 15 12 Boston Area 0 804934 I just saw today's Boston Globe Cheap Eats review of Wild Willy's in Watertown. It all sounded very good until I read: "for health reasons, they don't accept rare or medium-rare orders". Whaat?! Clearly a place that specializes in fried ground chuck and deep-fried potatoes isn't that worried about your health; they're scared of E. coli lawsuits. I see that injunction on a growing number of menus. That's a shame: I won't order a burger at any restaurant that won't cook mine rare or medium-rare. This baffles me. You risk food-borne illness every time you dine out (does the prep cook wash his hands religiously?), and MA law requires a menu disclaimer about the risks associated with raw and undercooked items. Isn't that enough? Looks like Wild Willy's will never see any of my money: back to R.F. O'Sullivan's, Audobon, Tim's, Union, and other places that will cook my burger My Way. Thu Dec 30 09:50:29 -0800 2004 0 MC Slim JB 1 804936 I agree. We recently had lunch at the The Stanhope Grille in the new Jurys Boston Hotel. They also refuse to serve burgers less than medium. There idea of medium looks well done to me. Seems like a hard sell when Grill 23 is just across the street. Thu Dec 30 10:01:08 -0800 2004 804934 0 Bill Smith 2 804950 I was at the 99 last month (stopped on the way to VT) and they won't go less than medium well. Which was beyond MW. I'm happy with medium myself but this seems to be happening more often. I wonder if the Stanhope Grill has a similar policy for steaks. Thu Dec 30 13:33:09 -0800 2004 804936 0 Joanie 3 804952 It all makes you wonder whether these folks just have zero confidence in their meat product and/or preparation? Thu Dec 30 14:23:32 -0800 2004 804950 0 MB 4 804953 It's the product. Only the largest meat buyers (think big chains like McDonalds) have a lot of say over how their ground beef arrives unless they buy local at MUCH higher prices. People are afraid of lawsuits (ie Jack in the Box cases) A good portion of hamburger meat sold in the US has some e-coli contamination. Slaughterhouses are not very sterile environments. More general topics, but read Fast Food Nation for more info. Thu Dec 30 14:28:05 -0800 2004 804952 0 Anonymous 5 804954 How about grinding the meat themselves. They do claim to be restaurants not delivery companies. Thu Dec 30 16:08:34 -0800 2004 804953 0 mdibiaso 3 804955 This is only a ground beef patty issue, not a steak one. Only meat that's been exposed to surfaces (handling and equipment) that carry e coli pick it up. Steak and roasts are only exposed on the outside and even when cooked medium rare, the outside is normally seared to past 165 deg F, which kills e coli. Hamburger, of course, has been handled all over, and could have had any part or all of it exposed - so there is a danger in keeping the inside too rare. It's a question of trust - knowing that the beef has been handled cleanly, that employees all along the chain of handling are paid well enough to be trained and feel enough professionalism to follow the guidelines. The issue isn't just where you grind it. If the e coli is on the outer part of a piece of chuck, it's going to get on the grinder and into your ground beef - whether the local butcher grinds it or whether you grind it at home. There are practices for butchers to follow to minimize exposure (keep cleaning the equipment), but what do you know about your butcher's or supermarket's sources and practices? There is a new practice - that of radiating the beef, which kills e coli and supposedly does not affect the meat properties at all. Why isn't this in greater use? Why isn't the USDA making this a standard process? I guess that it just isn't a great enough risk to bother spending that kind of dough. Ultimately, it's about the odds and taking risks. Eating raw hamburger is much less dangerous than driving on the highway - and I sure do a lot of that. I know that people argue that you have to drive on the highway, you don't have to eat raw beef. There's a lot of things we don't have to do - ultimately, you can avoid all the risks by not having a life. As far as restaurants - they just don't want to get sued. Fine. Like the OP said, if they don't want to take that risk, I don't want to eat there. I'm right in line behind you at RF O'Sullivan's. Thu Dec 30 16:23:14 -0800 2004 804950 0 applehome 4 804958 "There is a new practice - that of radiating the beef, which kills e coli and supposedly does not affect the meat properties at all. Why isn't this in greater use? Why isn't the USDA making this a standard process? I guess that it just isn't a great enough risk to bother spending that kind of dough." It's apparently not THAT much more expensive of a procedure from my limited readings. However, the slowdown of the production line does result in less output which equals less dough for Conagra, IBP, etc. Plus, the public may get freaked out by irradiated beef. The switch these days to organic/hormone free products are bad enough, imagine if the American public were told they were eating beef that had been exposed to radiation. Knowledge of the various types of radiation isn't as widespread as it could be. Or I could be off my rocker. It wouldn't be the first time. Thu Dec 30 18:59:08 -0800 2004 804955 0 Dax 5 804960 Folks, we're off the topic of burgers in Boston and onto a broader topic of beef handling that really belongs on the General Topics board. We hope someone will start a new thread there to continue this interesting topic. Please keep further responses here focused on finding great burgers in Boston, as we'll be removing off topic responses. Thanks. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/boards/general/general.html Thu Dec 30 19:33:29 -0800 2004 804958 2 The Chowhound Team 4 805191 I went to Wild Willy's a few weeks ago and was VERY disappointed. When I walked all I could smell was greasey burgers. I wanted to turn around but I saw it get rave reviews on the Phantom Gourmet. I got a cheeseburger with fries and onion rings. I had a bite of the cheeseburger and was disgusted. The onion rings weren't that bad but the fries were soggy. Needless to say I left hungry and will never go back. Wed Jan 05 18:28:22 -0800 2005 804955 0 Frannie 1 804943 I just finished that ServSafe exam, and the one of the few food safety parts of the enormous text talks about temperatures to hold/cook food at - hamburgers come out cinders. Most food related laws seem to make little sense: milk inspectors inspect barns, not milk; health inspectors seem to have no idea what might go on in an operating kitchen. Remember when no one would cook eggs over easy? Any restaurants still refusing to poach eggs? You're definitely right about the risks eating out - or even buying hamburger. I either get mine from a local grocery store that grinds its hamburger from trimmings, or grind my own. Heck if restaurants can serve tartare...... Thu Dec 30 12:10:27 -0800 2004 804934 0 pastrytroll 1 804957 No kidding! I got a bacterial infection from FRIED scallops!! I personally love a medium rare burger - there is no other kind. Thu Dec 30 17:36:31 -0800 2004 804934 0 cp 1 805085 thanks for the warning. thought i'd take my wife there this weekend. but since both of us love our steaks and burgers on the rare side, we will skip this place. too bad, we read some good reviews of the place. Tue Jan 04 11:38:10 -0800 2005 804934 0 Eric 1 807215 Actually, I hate to derail this whole thing, but you CAN have a med-rare burger at Willy's. I've had a few already. They won't do rare, but they will do med-rare. Just ask. Mon Jan 31 18:39:05 -0800 2005 804934 0 DSG 1 808579 Hi there, Just wanted to say that it disappoints me to see someone turned off by Wild Willy's before they've tried it. Despite their "medium-rare" policy, I've never had a better burger. In fact, I've come to look forward to dining at Willy's every few weeks! Looks like you already have some favorite Boston restaurants (a creature of habit like myself), but I think you might add this one to the list if you tried it. Their burgers are sooo good! Linsey Mon Mar 07 18:10:49 -0800 2005 804934 0 Linsey 2 808580 Gotta add. In my book, a burger can't be "soooo good" if it ain't medium rare. Tue Mar 08 09:16:15 -0800 2005 808579 0 StriperGuy