148469 Mon Jul 05 08:45:10 -0700 2004 16 12 Boston Area 0 796171 after a tip from striperguy last year, i was told to seek out a tasty white belgian-style beer called celis white while on a trip to austin, texas. it was only distributed in texas for a while . . . and how it's here. my sister found a 6-pack for me and certainly made my july 4 one of the best ever. she got hers at gary's liquors in west roxbury -- and i'm sure it's elsewhere in the boston area. bottoms up! Mon Jul 05 08:45:10 -0700 2004 0 dchow 1 796173 Interesting.....I was heavily into Celis back in the early 90's, but haven't been able to find it of late. Macy's in Allston said that they either went out of business or were bought out and discontinued. Thanks for the tip! Mon Jul 05 12:23:34 -0700 2004 796171 0 Science Chick 2 796188 It is a unusual situation. I found this out while brewing and reading about a lot of beer. The whole brew web is mind boggling. Celis was bought by Miller, but only had distribution rights in Texas. This is only a small tip of the boggling iceberg of beer. Mon Jul 05 22:55:19 -0700 2004 796173 0 mike 1 796205 The whole Celis saga is quite complicated, and I don't know all the details, but this is what I do know. Peter Celis revived the Belgian Wit style when he developed the recipe for Hoegaarden (pronounced who-garden) which is now owned by Interbrew. Most beer geeks say that today's Hoegaarden is a mere shell of what it used to be due to cost cutting by Interbrew. Celis then started a brewery in Austin TX and made Celis White - which I heard was similar to the original Hoegaarden - and ended up selling to Miller at one point. Peter Celis then went on to continue brewing in Belgium - I remember seeing Celis White and Grottenbier available when I was there in 2002. I believe Miller sold the rights to the Celis brand to a brewery in Michigan where it is brewed today. I thought the Celis Wit I had on tap at Redbones last week was good, but others that have had it in the past said it wasn't as good as the stuff brewed in Austin. Some other Wits commercially available in the area besides Hoegaarden and Celis: Allagash White (very good in the 750 ml bottle) Ommegang Witte St. Bernardus Witbier Victory Whirlwind Wit Hitachino Nest White Ale - the best example that I've had beside the Alchemist's version(brewpub in Waterbury VT). Brooklyn Blanche de Brooklyn Unibroue Blanche de Chambly Paper City Summer Haze Wittkerke (in cans) Sam Adams Summer is supposed to be wit I believe. Dogfish Head Weedwacker Wit - was out last year, don't know if they brewed it this year or not. Cambridge Brewing Company has one that is currently on tap. Watch City Brewing Co. in Waltham has a half wit / half hefeweizen currently on tap. Blue Moon brewed by Coors if you are desperate. I love a good witbier in the Summer. Very light, lemony, refreshing, and pairs very well with lobster and seafood. Tue Jul 06 11:33:49 -0700 2004 796171 0 rl 2 796219 Thanks! I'll check out the other wits you recommend, in lieu of Celis....how I miss it, though! :-) Tue Jul 06 13:04:48 -0700 2004 796205 0 Science Chick 2 796224 They are great summer beers, great with the lightest squeeze of lemon. IMO good bitter IPA's are even better (the victory 90 minute IPA is simply the best beer I have had for ages), but I buy these for a change. What do you like for winter beers? I was a huge fan of the Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout until last winter, when it didn't seem nearly as good. I have loved the rouge imperial stout in the past but haven't been able to find it here in Boston. Tue Jul 06 13:49:49 -0700 2004 796205 0 tdaaa 3 796230 Lemon? - Blashphemy. I think lemon tends to wash out the subtle flavors of the coriander and bitter orange peel that is used to brew wits. I'd rather drink it straight, but hey, we all have different tastes, so drink it the way you like it. But if I ever catch you putting a lemon in your hefeweizen, so help me....;-) kidding. BTW, Victory makes Hop Devil, Dogfish Head makes the 90 minute. My favorite IPA right now is Smuttynose IPA that just came out this spring. Lots of pungent hop flavor, and nicely balanced bitterness/sweetness. As far as winter beers - I enjoy a wide range of higher alcohol beers. Victory Storm King Stout and Old Horizontal barley wine; Belgian Christmas beers like N'Ice Chouffe and Affligem Noel; Dopplebocks like Spaten Optimator or Ayinger Celebrator; Heavywieght Brewing Company Perkunnos Hammer Imperial Porter and Lunacy - just to name a few. That Brooklyn BCS is good, but needs a little aging to mellow it out a little. You can find Rouge Impy Stout in some select beer stores around Boston (it can be hard to find though) and Redbone's or Anam Cara usually have it on tap at some point during the winter. Cheers! Tue Jul 06 15:43:25 -0700 2004 796224 0 rl 4 796244 I figured the lemon in the beer would get your goat, but that was how belgian wheat beer was originally served to me at Monk's Cafe in Philadelphia (authentic enough to serve each beer in the "proper" glass, one of the best beer selections on the Eastern Seaboard). You are correct regarding the 90min IPA - I got overly excited thinking about beer and misspoke. By "select beer stores" who do you mean precisely? I love the victory storm king stout - great beer, but have never been impressed by the smuttynose products. I will try the IPA, tho. Wed Jul 07 08:11:54 -0700 2004 796230 0 TDAAA 4 796245 I figured the lemon in the beer would get your goat, but that was how belgian wheat beer was originally served to me at Monk's Cafe in Philadelphia (authentic enough to serve each beer in the "proper" glass, one of the best beer selections on the Eastern Seaboard). You are correct regarding the 90min IPA - I got overly excited thinking about beer and misspoke. By "select beer stores" who do you mean precisely? I love the victory storm king stout - great beer, but have never been impressed by the smuttynose products. I will try the IPA, tho. Wed Jul 07 08:11:59 -0700 2004 796230 0 TDAAA 5 796250 I think any of the better beer stores in the area will have it - but you may have be there at the right time. Some stores in and around Boston are Marty's in Allston or Newton, Charles St. Liquors, Downtown Liquors in Davis Sq., Colonial Spirits in Acton, Julios in Westboro, Harrington's in Chelmsford, or Kappy's in Saugus. If you don't see it on the shelves, ask the beer manager at any one of these places, and if its available, they can get it for you. Wed Jul 07 10:04:06 -0700 2004 796245 0 rl 4 798169 Agreed on the Smuttynose IPA. Very nicely made. I have some in the fridge right now. Before the DH 60/90 and the Smuttynose, I didn't think the Northeast had a bottled IPA that could consistently compete with anything from the Midwest or West Coast, but those are some nice beers. I had actually been put off by some of DH's more experimental efforts and had largely ignored their stuff until this summer, when a fellow beer geek told me that I simply had to try the 60. I can seldom stick with a beer as long as I have the 60. It really is distinctive and brilliantly made beer. Sun Aug 15 13:37:25 -0700 2004 796230 0 Cairdin 3 798168 The 90 Minute IPA is Dogfish Head's beer, not Victory's--their IPA is called Hop Devil. I haven't had much of the 90 because it's a bit overhopped for my taste, but the 60 is utterly fantastic, IMHO. I've been putting the kids of the Dogfish Head owners through Harvard this summer with all the sixes I've bought. According to the beer guy at Marty's in Allston, where they have a tower of (unfortunately warm) 60 minute on display, the stuff is "flying out of the store." Sun Aug 15 13:32:25 -0700 2004 796224 0 Cairdin 2 796235 boston beer works also makes a haymarket hefeweizen (it's tasty). Tue Jul 06 16:51:10 -0700 2004 796205 0 dchow 3 796253 Although BBW's hefewiezen is a decent example of its style, and yes, tasty, it is technically a German style hefeweizen. It is made with wheat like a Belgian Wit/White, but is fermented with a different yeast strain that gives it banana and clove flavors and aromas. Usually Belgian wits are flavored with coriander and orange peel and also use a portion of unmalted wheat in the grain bill. Another difference is that Belgian Wits are usually a little lighter on the palate than a German Hefe. Wed Jul 07 10:13:22 -0700 2004 796235 0 rl 2 796239 Allagash White was at Trader Joe's (in Cambridge at least) last week. About $5 for 750 ml. A great deal on a very tasty brew. Mike Tue Jul 06 18:08:51 -0700 2004 796205 0 Mike 1 796226 Way cool to hear Celis is back in Boston. Will have to hunt it down even if it is not quite the same. When I had it, it was hands down the best Wit/Weiss/White beer I ever had! Tue Jul 06 14:44:44 -0700 2004 796171 0 StriperGuy 2 796231 Its really a pretty decent wit - I thought it was comparable to Hoegaarden. I've never had the Celis wit until last week, so I really don't know if its the same or not -its just what I've been hearing in the beer circles. Two summers ago, the only wit you could get around here was Hoegaarden, Victory, or local brewpub versions. Its good to see more brewers now making this style. Tue Jul 06 15:48:54 -0700 2004 796226 0 rl