143644 Tue Dec 17 11:24:00 -0800 2002 31 12 Boston Area 0 768970 For those in the Lexington, Bedford, Burlington area who cannot get conveniently to Rosenfeld in Newton or Katz in Chelsea, how does Aesop in Lexington compare to Finagle compare to Bruegger's. I searched through the message board, and there is a lot on bagel and almost nothing in terms of evaluation of these vendors. Are they so second or third tier that it is not worth it for this forum? Tue Dec 17 11:24:00 -0800 2002 0 Richard904 1 768971 A hot, fresh, Brueggers bagel is probably the best in Boston, in my opinion. Many have issues with Brueggers, because typically, after a few hours, a Brueggers bagel loses it's appeal and becomes pretty hard and chewy; I must admit, this is true. It's the price you pay for such a delicious bagel up front, right outta the oven. Ultimately, I think Rosenfeld and Brueggers bagels are pretty similar. Not at all knowledgable re: Aesop....and well, a Finagle Bagel, while very delicious, is in somewhat of a different class...not, in my opinion, a real NYC style bagel (like Rosenfeld and Brueggers). My thoughts. lori Tue Dec 17 11:42:54 -0800 2002 768970 0 lori b 2 768979 I pretty much agree; Bruegger's is certainly better than many of the bagel places one now finds littering the NY City area, for that matter. A real bagel SHOULD go stale fairly quickly! Bruegger's normal varieties (I won't discuss all their odd items, though, which are a travesty) are normally better than Finagle's, which are made with too much sugar, allowed to rise too much, and lack sufficient tension in the crust, etc. I think the Bruegger's pumpernickel bagel is a difficult-to-beat classic. Tue Dec 17 12:33:11 -0800 2002 768971 0 Karl S. 3 768981 Yep. I was trying to think of the right way to word what I was thinking "A real bagel SHOULD go stale quickly." That's it, Karl S. :) H & H in NYC - same thing. You buy a bagel there, you wanna eat it fresh out of the oven. If you hang on to it more than a day, you've got to toast it. And still, it's not quite the same. The best bagels are crispy on the outside and soft on the inside...with that just outta the oven feel. Finagle's are generally soft and doughy everywhere. They taste pretty good, but yeah, bottom line is they are not the best all - around bagel. Tue Dec 17 12:53:59 -0800 2002 768979 0 lori b 1 768987 I rate Aesop above Bruegger's although it's been a while since I've been there and can't remember what it is exactly that I like about them. I don't like the soft doughyness of Finagel's. They don't have the (gluten?) cheweyness nor the hard shiney outside I associate with a good bagel. There are two in Arlington, both on Mass Ave., that have very good bagels: Bagels by US & Bagels Etc. Tue Dec 17 13:43:45 -0800 2002 768970 0 SEH 2 769004 I love the Bagel by Us. I think they have the best bagels anywhere. I love to eat them just plain untoasted. Tue Dec 17 16:15:00 -0800 2002 768987 0 MeffaBabe 3 769017 Those are from H&H in NYC! Tue Dec 17 17:28:37 -0800 2002 769004 0 StriperGuy 1 768995 If you can get to Aesop, GO!!! I love their bagels, and they are the right ratio of chewiness to crispyness. Also, they have one with this crumb-type topping that is sooo good with maple walnut cream cheese. It's not a "travesty" as someone called the finagle a bagels flavor combos! I wish Aesop were open for longer hours, but this way you're guaranteed fresh hotties. Tue Dec 17 14:57:48 -0800 2002 768970 0 alex 1 769003 I have to say, I won't eat a Bruegger's bagel hot or cold. They steam them (they should be boiled) and the texture is all wrong. As a NYC boy originally, Bruegger's bagels have never even really qualified as bagels in my book. In Boston Kupels, and Katz are way better. Even Manhattan bagel off the Boston Common is better. I even prefer Finagle, but they are really more like donuts (too soft). I don't know how much time you have spent in NYC, but H&H or even better Ess a Bagel blow Brueggers out of the water. I seldom flame on this board, but on this topic... Tue Dec 17 15:54:26 -0800 2002 768970 0 StriperGuy 2 769008 Hmmm. I don't know. I think a hot Brueggers bagel is as close to H & H as any other place in Boston...but I didn't know that they steamed vs. boiled. I forgot about Kupels. Excellent. Going to NYC this weekend and hope for an H & H detour so I'll weigh in after that.... Tue Dec 17 16:30:07 -0800 2002 769003 0 lori b 3 769012 I always found Breugger's bagels to be completely acceptable rolls. Unfortunately they aren't particularly useful to me as actual bagels. Rosenfeld's works for me, and Kupel's isn't what it used to be. Tue Dec 17 17:03:42 -0800 2002 769008 0 AlanH 2 769009 At the risk of being pelted with stale bagels... I was in NYC two weeks ago, and made a trip to the famous H&H. Got a fresh, hot bagel. It was good and I had no complaints, but it was nothing special. If that's the standard by which all bagels are to be judged, then maybe I'm just not a bagel person. Because it seemed awfully close to what I can get from Finagle. That being said, I dislike Breugger's bagels. Tue Dec 17 16:35:13 -0800 2002 769003 0 chilibug 2 769010 I am from NY originally, and have had slews of bagels thence, including H&H, which I have to say I did not find to be an epiphany (they are good, don't get me wrong), etc. It's funny, but Finagle's are boiled but seem steamed, and Brueggers (which has gotten better over the years; at first, they were quite inconsistent; again, I am only talking about standard bagels & flavors here, not their odd things) the reverse. Their pumpernickel is a noble creation, better than most that I can find in NY; their plain and onion are also quite good (the poppy seed is too generously studded for my taste, and their sesame seeds always seem raw). I prefer Rosenfelds the most, because they alone in this area still use malt (instead of sugar), which has a distinct flavor profile that I yearn for and causes much slower and smaller rise, which makes for the best texture. Kupels went downhill over the years from my perspective, and my few attempts to get to Katz's left me emptyhanded. Tue Dec 17 16:37:59 -0800 2002 769003 0 Karl S. 3 769016 I am a big pumpernickel guy... I am willing to give Bruegger's another try. Haven't had one in years. I forgot all about Rosenfeld which are excellent. I will say that I do agree that Kupel's is not quite what it once was. In NYC though I am an H&H fan, Ess a Bagel and one other (whose name eluds me) are the only ones that still shape the bagels by hand. Tue Dec 17 17:26:34 -0800 2002 769010 0 StriperGuy 4 769033 StriperGuy---Before making my last trip to NYC for another of my periodic runs to get genuine top quality: lox (at Russ&Daughters), bialys (at Kossar's), and pastrami (at the Second Ave Deli), I hit the New York Chowhound board asking for recommendations for handmade bagels, which as you well know is ,sadly, an endangered species. Murray's (on both 12th St and 22nd) were suggested as was Ess a Bagel and a place on the northeast corner of 78th and First. Kossar's also makes their own handmade and Russ& Daughters sells a handmade, too. We got to Ess a Bagel (excellent crust and texture but I found them to be a touch too bulbous). Loved both R&D's and those sold at Kossar's but didn't have time to stop by either Murray's or the 78th St place. Each of the bagels that we bought was much better than anything I've had in Boston. Rosenfeld's, Katz's and Kupel's, in my opinion, are about the best in Boston but I agree that Kupel's has become rather inconsistent. Sad that no one makes a handmade bagel in Boston anymore.The difference is enormous. Tue Dec 17 22:17:43 -0800 2002 769016 0 Elzoe 5 769039 And I will agree that you still have to go to NY to get a dependable bialy, sigh. I have had Kossar's ship them to my home here, but the onions always fall out in shipping, it seems.... and then there are the pletzels.... Wed Dec 18 08:45:21 -0800 2002 769033 0 Karl S. 3 769083 I went to the Bruegger's in Bedford, and they boil the bagle. In fact I watched the bagels being put into the boiling pot through the observation window in back. The manager confirms that they are boiled. Wed Dec 18 16:03:52 -0800 2002 769010 0 Richard904 2 769128 And of course the true home of the bagel is Montreal, where there's still a few places making handformed bagels in wood fired ovens, two or three varieties only, very small and crispy/chewy, lines out the door. Thu Dec 19 13:12:07 -0800 2002 769003 0 grueldelux 3 769134 Here's a link to a Globe article on Montreal bagels. After all this bagel talk, I've resampled Brueggers, Finagle and a shop on Tremont and Winter. I like to eat Finagles, but they're not really bagels..the other 2 were all right..not inspiring. Link: http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/352/travel/Visitors_warm_to_fresh_baked_bagels_and_breads_in_Montreal+.shtml Thu Dec 19 13:59:06 -0800 2002 769128 0 9lives 4 769158 Thanks for the link. Haven't been reading the Globe much. Guess I'd better if I'm going to post here. Thu Dec 19 19:01:19 -0800 2002 769134 0 grueldelux 5 769172 No..not necessary to read a newsapaper...post away. Thu Dec 19 21:11:18 -0800 2002 769158 0 9lives 1 769086 By the latest census, Massachuseets has the third highest percentage of Jews in the US. (Following NY and NJ). Yet you cannot get a good bagel or deli in this state. The threads bemoaning this pop up every month on this board. People call good Jewish food "NY style", but to me that just means good. I've had great deli in Indiana and Seattle, yet cannot find it here. What gives, my fellow Jews? Wed Dec 18 16:33:27 -0800 2002 768970 0 enoboy 2 769096 I have thought of opening a real deli here! Make pastamela from scratch. Bake some nice rugelach. And blintzes, definitely blintzes. Wed Dec 18 19:30:50 -0800 2002 769086 0 StriperGuy 3 769098 I'll be one of your best customers..:) but not an investor. I don't know why, but Boston just doesn't seem to support it. Alan Dershowitz opened Mavens in Harvard Sq..a few years ago..didn't make it. Stage Deli opened in the theater district about 10 years ago..where Caprice is..didn't make it. It's a shame. Wed Dec 18 19:48:38 -0800 2002 769096 0 9lives 3 769103 And you'll soon go out of business. Hence my questions. Wed Dec 18 22:13:02 -0800 2002 769096 0 enoby 2 769109 Well, please let this non-Jew offer a partial (I emphasize partial) theory: Massachusetts (including Boston) has a comparative dearth of people of central European descent (eg Germany, Austria, Hungary, Czech et al., Poland) who share a good deal of the food culture one associates with delis and the like. The Jewish delis in places like NY and Chicago not only appealed to Jews in the first instance but also people from Central Europe generally, thus insuring a larger market base, one that is comparatively lacking here. It's not just Jewish delis, you see, and that to me is the clue. It's a whole region of cooking that is hard to find here, including also notably Viennese-style baking and pastry, which is quite common elsewhere. Thu Dec 19 08:51:11 -0800 2002 769086 0 Karl S. 3 769114 Excellent theory. It is indeed difficult to find good Russian food as well. I think it explains part of it. But not all. The fact that Greater Boston is down to one Kosher caterer leads me to think that there is an assimilation issue here as well. Jews in MA do not seem to revel in their ethnicity the way folks in other parts of the country do. This does not seem confined to Jews, by the way. So if the Jewish population is ambivalent about enthusiasm for "soul food", then its'availability will be limited. Thu Dec 19 10:21:51 -0800 2002 769109 0 enoboy 4 769116 I don't feel qualified to opine about the differences in German Jewish and Russian Jewish ancestry in the Boston area in this regard, but was often been cited to me in the distant past. Thu Dec 19 11:04:09 -0800 2002 769114 0 Karl S. 4 769146 A bit off topic, but...one kosher caterer in Boston? Which one are you thinking of? There are four that come to mind immediately -- Andrew's, Ora, the Cambridge Hyatt (will only cater for events held there), and Brandeis catering service (again, only for events held there) -- nd I'm sure there are more if you include the general Boston area (including Providence). Thu Dec 19 16:06:04 -0800 2002 769114 0 Micah 5 769164 My aunt recently attempted to have a kosher wedding for her daughter and was only able to get a price from Andrew's. She was told by numerous hotels that he was the only option, other than going to RI. They ended up having to do a kosher style. Regardless if it 1, 2 or 3, that is pretty poor considering Greater Boston has over 200,000 Jews. Thu Dec 19 20:03:18 -0800 2002 769146 0 enoboy 2 769509 Yeah, it's really true. It's like anything else that's commercialized. Once Dunkin' Donuts sells it, there is no hope. In a few years, you'll never find a decent scone again! When I was little they had good bagels all over CT, but it's the same situation there too. BUT, I have definitely found great bagels - Cafe Arpeggio (sorry not Jewish) on Broadway in Southie. Really really good. I keep telling everyone that I'm so surprised how good they are and how nice it is to have a real bagel. They're crunchy on the outside bagelly on the inside, normal sized not gi-normous. Love them. Thu Jan 02 18:02:17 -0800 2003 769086 0 Missykins 3 769674 Well, since Lender's went out of business (and for those that didn't know, the original Lenders guys used to operate a bagel shop in Orange), there are no good bagels in CT.... ;) Mon Jan 06 13:20:46 -0800 2003 769509 0 Todd Chapin