14039 Tue Apr 05 02:47:21 -0700 2005 16 4 Pacific Northwest 0 31702 Joined a few PortlandFood.org friends for the opening of Ken's Monday pizzeria. By six o'clock, the line was out the door. Luckily one person had got there early to save us a seat. They had four pizzas on the menu, along with a caesar. We got all four pizzas: margherita, soppressata, olive and red onion, fennel sausage. Only the last pizza came with a cheese other than mozzarella -- fontina. The margherita was $10, the others were $12, for about a 10" pizza. As you can hopefully see from the photo below, the crust is nicely crisped with the occasional blackened spots around the outside. The crust itself has a nice bready flavor and a delicate and spongy texture when you move away from the edges and toward the middle. Guessing, I would say that perhaps the crust has a bit of oil in it, more like a foccacia dough than a typical bread dough. I think that might be why it has that bit of sponginess. Personally, I'd like the crust to be a bit thinner, though it's certainly not thick. However, my only complaint my be exacerbated by a thinner crust. I found the sauce a bit overwhelming, both sweet and intense. Now that I think about it, perhaps it's finished with a bit of balsamic or reduced balsmaic? Definitely seemed sweet, though. It's almost all I could taste on the margherita. On a lesser crust, that'd be a blessing. My favorite was the soppressata. The slight spiciness of the salami served to balance the sweetness. The sausage, which came with roasted onion, was good, but tasted so sweet it almost seemed like a dessert. The salty and briny olives also did an okay job of balancing out the sweetness of the sauce. However, it's somewhat a shame that balance was needed because the crust is so good, but this balancing of intense flavors only makes the crust disappear even more. I don't want to be mistaken. The pizzas were good. I don't think they're at the level of Apizza Scholls, primarily because of balance, but hey, Apizza Scholls isn't open Monday (well, not for pizza). I'd like to do a head-to-head comparison with the wood-oven pizzas at Wildwood and Cafe Castagna, which are about the same size and price. Link: http://www.extramsg.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album302&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php Image: http://www.extramsg.com/albums/album302/kenspizza4.sized.jpg Tue Apr 05 02:47:21 -0700 2005 0 extramsg 1 31710 I agree with you, Nick, about the sauce. It was more intense and sweet than tangy and tomato-y. I did like the fact that there wasn't too much sauce which can make the pie wet and gushy. I like a meat pizza to have the occasional bite of the meat product rather than the full-meal-deal in every bite. Again, perhaps just my personal preference, but my Fennel sausage pie had too much sausage (for my taste) which overwhelmed the other flavors. Too much of the meat product also can compromise the integrity of the crust--just too much fat soaking into it, I imagine. The crust on my pie held up, but it did get softer than that of my dining partners' non-meat pies. The great experience of Ken's pizza is the crust. I am a real crust mavin, and have to put myself out there, perhaps the lone voice in the wilderness, in expressing my disappointment in Scholls. The one pizza I had there was great as far as the quality of the topping ingredients was concerned, but after the first slice, the pizza had the same limp-crust syndrome I experience pretty much everywhere else. Better flavors, no doubt, but even with the minimal toppings, the crust, at least on the pie I got, didn't hold up. I've wondered if the smaller pie might work better in this regard, but have not tried it at Scholls. Ken's crust on these small pies were nicely crisp for the duration, and tasty as well. I appreciate the fact that Ken is experimenting with this option and hope they will continue to do so. They did a great job especially considering the crowd and a new "medium!" Tue Apr 05 15:08:25 -0700 2005 31702 0 Eva b 2 31711 So it's the texture you don't like? It's not crisp enough at Scholls? It's too thin? Tue Apr 05 15:29:05 -0700 2005 31710 0 extramsg 3 31714 Crisp bottom is what I'm looking for. Not hard through, but just a bottom "crust" so to speak. The first slice I ate (Scholls) was great, but subsequent slices from the large pie had limp, soft crust--less so toward the outer edge, and more so toward the center. I like thin crust and can't remember thinking that Scholl's was too thin, but I didn't think Ken's was too thick either, which you mentioned. I don't know enough about the variables to know what makes a crust hold up but can only imagine that there are aspects of the dough content (maybe oil, for one?), thickness, pie size, topping characteristics and proportions, how long the pie sits, and on what, that all play into the equation. Tue Apr 05 16:22:34 -0700 2005 31711 0 Eva b 4 31716 It may just be a style thing, then. Those who grew up with NY pizza may be better at comparing the two, but I think a NY pizza should have a bit of flop to it so that when you lift it, you bend it to keep it straight. Ken's pizza was in no need of viagra. I don't think it was any crispier than the pizza at Scholls, just shorter and thicker, both of which make it less likely to flop. Stay away from a place like Bella Faccia, btw. Not too crisp, way thin, and ultra-floppy. I wouldn't think you'd be much of a fan of Escape or Hot Lips either? Tue Apr 05 16:47:09 -0700 2005 31714 0 extramsg 5 31718 I think the most important element of a crispy, flop-less pizza slice is limiting the number of toppings. That's where a place like Bella Faccia runs into trouble. It also makes it easier to understand Scholls' no-exceptions toppings limit. I still think that's an amusing policy, in a Soup Nazi sort of way: "No toppings for you!" The customer is *sometimes* right. Authentically Italian, in that way. Tue Apr 05 18:36:19 -0700 2005 31716 0 benschon 6 31720 I think Bella Faccia just has a bad crust that couldn't stand up if it had no toppings. But maybe it's that it's over-sogged. If the crust is good, you want to limit the toppings so you can taste it. But if the crust is bad, you want lots of toppings. I have no problem with food "nazis" if there's reason behind it. It shows pride and care. Tue Apr 05 18:50:46 -0700 2005 31718 0 extramsg 7 31731 ok ok ok we all know that apizza scholls is THE BEST PIZZA! once you have it you can'nt have any other, without comparing. let's stop comparing other pizzas and judge others for what they are, not what they aren't.there are different types of pizza and i eat the pizza i'm in the mood for. any pizza talk starts with,"it's no apizza scholls...". we know, we know! the same goes for LOW's BBQ. oh so good (for texas BBQ that is). Nick-i'm beginning to think you work for them!:) Tue Apr 05 23:50:12 -0700 2005 31720 0 rs 8 31732 I do work for them -- voluntarily. Same thing with other places I love. I'm not one of those people who thinks that any time a good restaurant comes along you should keep it as your personal spot hoping it never gets busy. I evangelize them hoping they'll get the business they deserve and be here years from now. But I haven't been quiet when I've had problems with Apizza Scholls. Go back to my reports and you'll see that I've been critical of them on several points. eg, I think the service can be spotty. I've also said that I would actually prefer Brian to cook the pizza a little *more*. Maybe if I was eating in NY or New Haven or Naples every day I'd have more to complain about. But as is, the only pizza I've had *ever* that I might choose over it is the Cheese Board's, and it's a different style of pizza. If you go back to my reports on LOW, especially from last year, you'll see the same. When I thought their brisket was too crumbly or too dry, I said so. When I thought their ribs were too chewy, I would say so. And I've always said that I'd like a better bark on their ribs and brisket, although they've done better now that they're not re-heating. But after I made my Memphis/KC trip and was able to taste LOW's Q so close to Q from some of the luminaries, my opinion was solidified. And it's gotten better since then. And the addition of the pulled pork, which was only decent the first day, but has gotten very good since then, plus the fabulous links, has made them even stronger. It's damn good BBQ. Easily the best Q in town (if your standard is the quality of the meat produced). btw, one of the problems before was the lines and service at LOW. They recently changed things so that you order at the counter and it seemed to help. Wed Apr 06 02:06:43 -0700 2005 31731 0 extramsg 6 31727 Did anyone see the recent Portland Tribune article in which they reviewed Apizza Scholls along with other pizza places? The reviewer seemed a little annoyed by having her number of toppings limited. It seems reasonable to me, but whatever. The review was even more positive about Sub Rosa on SE Clinton. Has anyone tried that? Link: http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=28981 Tue Apr 05 21:26:48 -0700 2005 31718 0 Nettie 6 31743 There are many reasons why we only allow up to 3 ingredients maximum on our pizza, but more importantly, this is our vision of what real pizza is. We were not initially going to have "build your own", but I decided to allow people to make their own to a certain degree. Ken doesn't allow build your own and I know that Cathy Whims will not allow build your own either, but because I allow 'build your own' with rules, I am viewed as the "pizza nazi". I rarely put anything on my pizzas, because I believe that the purist form of pizza is the plain pie. Toppings don't make the pizza, but they can accent or compliment what is already there. More than 3 ingredients is what I call a "garbage pie", because then it is all about the toppings and not about the pizza. Brian Spangler Apizza Scholls Wed Apr 06 14:00:29 -0700 2005 31718 0 Brian Spangler 7 31747 See, I'm someone who loves toppings on a pizza, but we generally don't order more than 2 anyway (although often 2 meats!), so the 3 topping limit isn't an issue. As Brian says, more than three toppings starts becoming a big jumble of flavors and the quality of the individual ingredients becomes wasted when you have more toppings than that on a pie. Our last trip in the pizza was just wonderful, and the crust seemed a bit firmer than our previous trip when we did have one pie that was just a bit greasy/soggy in the center. There's something special about Brian's pies, too. While the whole pizza is excellent, once in a while (it happened with three bites last visit) you'll get that special bite with just the perfect ratio of sauce, cheese, meat, and crust, all in perfect balance, and just sit there for a minute enjoying the perfect pizza bite. Marshall Wed Apr 06 14:51:50 -0700 2005 31743 0 Marshall Manning 8 31749 Ya know, Marshall, I totally get what you mean... More than once a bite of one of Brian's Margheritas with the perfect amalgam of crust/sauce/cheese/garlic/basil has had me pause and think, "Wow..this is absolutely amazing..." Haven't been in a a while, need some pizza soon... Cheers to you and C., btw! Wed Apr 06 15:13:33 -0700 2005 31747 0 Jill-O 7 31772 Hey, I'm not one to object to a hugely successful business model, I was just saying I thought it was amusing. The American "customer is always right" ethos is usually a crock, anyway. A look-you-in-the-eye, "I understand what you want, but that's not our business" response is far preferable to faking enthusiasm for an order of pineapple ham teriyaki tofu ricotta arugula pesto pizza. I'm sympathetic to Scholls quality control ethic. I have the same issues at my business. Knowing that my name will be on the front of the report, I occasionally tell clients that I cannot give them the answer they want at any price. If a customer at a sushi restaurant asked for their nigiri cooked well-done, would they do it? Back to pizza, I was in line behind a guy at Bella Faccia who asked for anchovies to be placed on his slice of cheese pizza. Initially, the slacker youth behind the counter said she couldn't add items to individual slices, which angered the customer who said he would pay the premium for it. In the end, she relented, but it was a tense moment. I can understand both sides of the issue--allowing people to custom design individual slices would be hugely time-consuming, but if all it takes to have a happy customer is a few anchovies, why not? An economist would solve this problem with money: you can have whatever you want, as long as you pay the piper. I retract my cavalier Nazi metaphor, with apologies. It's totally inappropriate to compare limiting pizza toppings with a regime that sought to systematically exterminate a whole population. Thu Apr 07 14:31:57 -0700 2005 31743 0 benschon 8 31776 Ben, My response was not directed at you, nor anyone imparticular. I enjoyed your post and there is no need to apologize. I really enjoyed your last post btw. Brian Spangler Apizza Scholls Thu Apr 07 16:07:47 -0700 2005 31772 0 Brian Spangler 2 31733 I had a margherita. When the pizza came (after an hour wait) there was a haze of orange hanging over the mozzarella and tomato sauce which put me off a little (look at Nick's picture). The pizza was tasty but the middle part of the pizza was a little soggy from too much tomato sauce or grease. The sauce was tangy and sweet, which I enjoyed, but it seemed out of place. While I enjoyed the pizza overall, $12 is a bit steep. Next Monday i'll be back at Low. Wed Apr 06 02:30:12 -0700 2005 31710 0 stu 2 31742 Many factors can lead to a soggy crust, which is why I believe that pizza making is very difficult craft to master. I think we hit our vision of perfection about 90% of the time and one of our criteria for perfection is a crust that stays crisp and flaky all the way through. Brian Spangler Apizza Scholls Wed Apr 06 13:44:16 -0700 2005 31710 0 Brian Spangler