138325 Mon Jan 10 11:37:13 -0800 2005 25 11 South 0 740775 Thanks to the Memphis Chowhounds who have posted their thoughts on the local scene. That body of collective knowledge helped steer me to some really good things and away from bad things. Here's a short summary, with a longer report (with photos) linked to below. Cozy Corner. Cool to see the aquarium tank up front. Ordered the Cornish hen (with mild sauce) and rib tips (with hot sauce). White meat on the hen was on the verge of dryness, but still had pretty good flavor that wasn't overwhelmed by the agreeable sauce. (The dark meat was hopelessly dry.) The rib tips seemed rather average to me. The meat was tender, but not really succulent, and lacked smokiness. Overall, it seemed like a pretty good place, though nothing I had there knocked my socks off. Payne's. The pitmaster and owner were friendly and funny. I liked seeing the pit in the serving area. (Hidden pits are usually a bad sign.) Got the rib sandwich and chopped pork sandwich. The ribs were pretty good, in terms of texture. And I liked the mild sauce with them. But they didn't have the flavor intensity of great ribs. (I ate the ribs straight, rather than as a sandwich.) The pork sandwich, however, was excellent. Good texture to the pork. The hot sauce wasn't so strong that it overpowered the pork. And the combination of pork, sauce, and mustard-yellow slaw was fantastic--the only such combo I had on the trip where I felt it worked perfectly. I'd love to go back. Germantown Commissary. Yuppie feel to this place. Portland Chowhound Nick (ExtraMSG) wasn't impressed with their ribs in his recent trip through Memphis, but liked their sandwich; so pulled pork sandwich is what I ordered. The pork had good texture, but little flavor. The sauce tasted okay, but wasn't very distinctive. Their slaw didn't seem to add anything to the mix, so I scraped it off. The toasted bun was above average. A pretty good sandwich. But it tasted something like what I'd expect from a mid-priced chain--not bad, but really lacking character. Central BBQ. I'd heard really good things about their ribs, so I ordered a dry half slab (along with some of the house-made chips). Focusing on meat alone, this was the best bit of barbecue I had on the trip, up to that point. (Payne's sandwich was great. But it was more about the combination of flavors and textures than the brilliance of the pork.) I thought the dry rub was a little too heavy and the smoke was way too light. But, still, these were very tasty ribs. I came back a couple of days later and tried the wet ribs. I preferred the wet to the dry, simply because the tasty sauce gave the ribs a flavor boost that they needed, due to their lack of smokiness. (The chips were, as I'd been told, excellent.) Corky's. I'd been warned here and elsewhere to steer clear of this tourist trap. But it was one of very few places open on New Year's Day. Got a combo of dry ribs and pulled pork. The ribs were abysmal--very possibly the worst ribs I've had in years. The meat was tough, incredibly dry, and flavorless. The powdery "rub" heaped on top of the slab after cooking tasted like synthetic barbecue Lik-m-aid. The pulled pork was at least edible, though it didn't distinguish itself in terms of flavor or smokiness. Our meal at Corky's was the most expensive of the trip. But they had, by far, the worst food and service of all the places to which we went. Blues City Cafe. I don't remember reading anything about this place, positive or negative. Given the location and the look, my hopes weren't high. But, again, it was one of few places open on New Year's Day. Ordered a half slab of wet ribs. The meat, low on flavor and smoke, was just shy of being unacceptably tough. The overly sweet sauce was way too much for the meat. Not truly bad ribs (ala Corky's), but not at all good, either. Overall, I found the average quality of Memphis barbecue to be good, given its style and aims. And there were some moments of greatness with Payne's sandwich and Central BBQ's ribs. Beautiful city, friendly people, and good barbecue. What more can you ask for? For more details and photos, see the link below. Scott Link: http://www.dallasfood.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=15 Image: http://www.dallasfood.org/photos/memphisbbq/centralbbqmeatribdetailtwo.jpg Mon Jan 10 11:37:13 -0800 2005 0 Scott 1 740779 If you only had one choice for lunch which place would it be.........thanks.......... Mon Jan 10 13:38:49 -0800 2005 740775 0 Ike! 2 740780 Ike, If I only had one choice for lunch? I'm sure the locals could better advise you. But, on the basis of the meals I had, it would be a toss-up between Payne's (for a jumbo chopped pork sandwich with mild sauce, topped with slaw) and Central BBQ (for a slab of wet ribs and some of those great barbecue potato chips). For someone who favors uniqueness, I'd give Payne's the nod. For someone who favors meat quality, I'd say Central BBQ. There's a lot of great advice from the Memphis Chowhounds in older threads. It's just a matter of combing through the recommendations and finding the place you'll be happiest with. Scott Link: http://www.dallasfood.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=15 Image: http://www.dallasfood.org/photos/memphisbbq/paynesmeatsandwich.jpg Mon Jan 10 13:55:00 -0800 2005 740779 0 Scott 3 740782 What about Germantown Commisary........It looks nice to me and I usually stay near there...........Also my folks here like Central BBQ best..........Good luck. Go to Sonny Bryans when you get a chance........I'm sure you have already been there......... Mon Jan 10 14:50:49 -0800 2005 740780 0 Ike! 1 740787 One of my favorites is the BBQ Shop on Madison. Give it a try the next time you're in town. Glad you enjoyed your trip! Mon Jan 10 15:55:18 -0800 2005 740775 0 Susan 2 740788 BBQ Shoppe was near the top of my list. But they were closed both New Year's Day and the following day (a Sunday). I'll definitely try them, next time I'm in Memphis. Scott Link: http://www.dallasfood.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=15 Image: http://www.dallasfood.org/photos/memphisbbq/cozycornermeathen.jpg Mon Jan 10 16:08:23 -0800 2005 740787 0 Scott 1 740797 Hey Scott? What exactly does "good, given its style and aims" mean? I'm confused and I am not being a smart ass! Thanks for the long report though. I found it interesting in the respect that several of the places you went to were supposed to be far better than the one's we went to. Yet, you seemed to have chosen your words very carefully...."Good, given its style and aims?" So, for those still on the fence about making a financial investment to visit this city, perhaps this summer, to experience their "Q"? Was that a rave review? It did not seem so to me. I know what I told hounds when I got back from Memphis (2004 Roadfood Tour across country) and that upset a few people. Others defended me. it was a real knock down drag out thing...But, I added that perhaps we just missed the great places in spite of my due dilligence? Ironically, our experiences were seconded by several other much younger friends, traveling from a completely different part of the country, who use to work for me in the restaurant industry. Chowhound Susan was not happy. I trashed her city, I trashed their "Q", etc. etc. Hey, if we loved it, don't you think I would have said so? We had no hidden agenda against Memphis! Anyawy, one Hound did say, in response to my less than positive comments on Memphis' "Q" that it was never suggested by anyone outside FoodTV that it was the "BBQ Capital of the US." Shame on me...that's why I went there! Expecting just that. We could have gone an entirely different way on the journey that would eventually end in Denver. You're damm right we were pissed off. But, perhaps you, too, have just missed their really great "Q" places? So, let's all just stay calm and await some more travelers' comments before letting all of us decide for ourselves Memphis' final grade. You know, for anybody visiting Nashville and considering going on to Memphis, a long drive, the opinions of all of us are very relevant. That's what this site is all about. Is Memphis worth that extra drive to the Western most reaches of Tennessee? The gas, the time, the hotel? I mean...does this make sense to anybody on this site besides me? I'd like to think so. For me, chowhound.com biggest value is in trying to limit one's bad restaurant and over-all travel experiences. Traveling cost a lot of $$$! Me? I am not looking to be a pioneer and walk into an unfamiliar place to eat or travel to a city without some sort of head's up...either way. Just giving it a shot....I leave that to others. So, listen to comments...I listen to who's making those comments..I seek a consensus....usually one does develop, if you do your research long enough. Then, either way, I make my decisions. Most times, it works out great. And so, if I've been helped, I have to do likewise. I have that same obligation when I travel as well. And, that's what I did with Memphis. I gave all my experiences in a very, very lengthly post. Sorry if some of the locals did not like it. Mon Jan 10 21:13:15 -0800 2005 740775 0 Chuck 2 740802 I believe you were challenged on the question of whether or not Memphis is the the BBQ Rib capital of the world, usa, whatever. I doubt if Memphians believe that, since it is chopped pork shoulder which is ubiquitous. Also, folks are always talking about how bad their dry ribs are. That's because dry ribs are bad. Ribs need basting to taste good. Of course, everyone's tastes are different, but I do believe that Interstate's ribs are heavenly, based on a recent experience. So is John Wills' chopped pork (and yes, he is my wife's first cousin). I have no recent experience with Corky's, but I can tell you I have never ordered the ribs dry. The 'wet' ribs were fantastic, but that was some time ago. Personally, I think it's crazy to travel all that way and eat nothing but bbq. Memphis is a good eating town and great a place to visit; to skip all the other good food there and have nothing or do nothing but bbq, well you only have yourself to blame. Mon Jan 10 22:49:25 -0800 2005 740797 0 Steve S. 3 740805 Steve - We never even entertained the thought of eating anything, but BBQ in Memphis. Like I said, we were overcome with the hype on FoodTV...both past and present. You may recall there were several shows on the city's "Q" a couple of years ago. That's where I recalled the unique method The Rendezvous used to cook their ribs...from a complete frozen state. Memphis was to be one of the absolute highlights of the trip. I'd actually wanted to visit it for many years. When in Nashville the previous year, I wanted to make the trip. It was just too far out of the way (we were on our way to Birmingham)at the time and my wife does not eat pork. So, I had to wait for my "Q" buddy who I went to Sweatman's with in SC to get some vacation time to make this trip across country. We didn't like the "Q" or the town. I said so....Some disagreed, but others did not. Let's just see how it all turns out over the upcoming months. Tue Jan 11 07:02:46 -0800 2005 740802 0 Chuck 2 740817 Chuck, That's a lot to respond to. But I'll do what I can. You ask, "What exactly does 'good, given its style and aims' mean?" Since there are different styles, standards, and techniques for barbecue, I think it's appropriate to judge a particular meal by reference to the tradition that informs it. Evaluating a Memphis barbecue joint with the same standards one would apply to a Central Texas joint in the German-Czech tradition (and vice versa) would be misguided and unhelpful. My qualification about "style and aims" was not intended to *undercut* the statement that the overall quality seemed good; it was an acknowledgement that "good" or "bad" are judgments that should be made from within the tradition. You ask, "So, for those still on the fence about making a financial investment to visit this city, perhaps this summer, to experience their 'Q'...was that a rave review?" It was not a rave review. (I don't do many of those.) But my overall assessment was positive. As for those sitting on the fence, they'll have to do their own cost-benefit analysis. For me, it was well worth the seven and a half hour drive from Dallas. I found Memphis barbecue--the choice of meats, the sauces, slaws, pit designs, and techniques--fascinating, from the perspective of an outsider to the tradition. And, despite the unfamiliarity of style, I found much to enjoy and a few things (of which I made particular mention) that I really loved. I'd happily go back for more exploration. You write, "I know what I told hounds when I got back from Memphis (2004 Roadfood Tour across country) and that upset a few people. Others defended me." I read your post (and its aftermath) before I left for Memphis. You may not be pleased with your negative experience. But the conversation it provoked was very useful in my planning. Knowing what places to avoid is almost as important as knowing what places to go to. Thank you for that detailed report. You write, "But, perhaps you, too, have just missed their really great 'Q' places?" I tried not to. But I may have. Despite my best efforts, I wasn't able to make it to A&R and the BBQ Shoppe, both of which came highly recommended. Even if I had made it to those, I would still have only sampled a small fraction of the offerings in Memphis. And, apart from Central BBQ, I only had one meal at each of the places I did go. That's an insufficient basis to say whether a joint is great. But I did try to do a wide sweep. And, as I've said, on the whole, I was very pleased with the results. Scott Link: http://www.dallasfood.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=15 Image: http://www.dallasfood.org/photos/memphisbbq/centralbbqmeatdryribs.jpg Tue Jan 11 12:06:28 -0800 2005 740797 0 Scott 3 740830 Thanks scott for your very fair and straight forward response. Hey, your food photos are absolutely incredible. Are you a professional food photographer? Good stuff. I know the Sterns use the camera like you have done on their website...I'm pretty sure you know their site and their work. If not, its roadfood.com. Thanks again for the pictures. I would love to see you get to Arthur Bryant's in KC and take some pictures of their food. then sit yourself down and try some of the best "Q" this country has to offer; Best I've ever had. Yet KC local hounds now say LC's is even better. Got to get back to KC and try LC's and then back to AB's...sounds like alphabet soup. Incidently, they would not let us take pictures in Arthur Bryant's. But, perhaps they'd let you take photos. Tue Jan 11 19:35:34 -0800 2005 740817 0 Chuck 4 740846 Chuck, Thanks for the kind words. As for the photographs, I just point, click, and hope for the best. Sometimes they turn out okay, sometimes they don't. I was in Llano, Texas, last weekend and few of my photos turned out. The pictures of meat in the pits came out poorly because there was so much mesquite smoke. The smoke between camera and meat made for a hazy picture. And the abundant smoke hanging in the air made it so dark (outdoors under a tall metal awning at close to noon) that I had to use the flash, which tended to light up the smoke more than the meat. Most of the pictures of the meats I ordered (spare ribs, beef ribs, brisket, pork loin, sirloin, and cabrito) didn't turn out because, having been plucked fresh from the pit, they were releasing so much steam that it clouded the lens, which I didn't realize until too late. Tough break. Regarding Kansas City, ExtraMSG also raved about LC's, particularly their burnt ends. (His report, with many photos in the "photo album," is linked to below. His photos are *much* better than mine.) Just the other day he was encouraging me to cancel an upcoming trip to the lower Rio Grande valley for old-school barbacoa to do Kansas City instead. Sooner or later I'll get up there; and LC's will be at the top of the list. (If LC's won't let me take pictures inside, I'll take the meat outdoors. I don't care about their operations or decor--just the meats.) Thanks, again. Scott Link: http://www.extramsg.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=26 Wed Jan 12 10:58:52 -0800 2005 740830 0 Scott 1 740801 Scott, the only time I've ever been to Cozy Corner was quite a few years ago. I distinctly remember then that they no longer used wood to bbq. Am I mistaken? Was that still the case? Could you tell? Mon Jan 10 22:22:50 -0800 2005 740775 0 Steve 2 740813 Steve, I could see charcoal in the firebox at Cozy Corner, but there may have been wood coals also. Can't say for sure one way or the other. I can say, however, that the meat wasn't discernibly smoky. But that seemed universal in the places I went. I'm still not sure if that's a matter of regional taste. Any idea? Scott Tue Jan 11 10:21:10 -0800 2005 740801 0 Scott 1 740809 Most bbq cooks or judges will tell you that the three hr drive from Nashville to Memphis is well worth the trip. Many will suggest that you pass Nashville, all together. If you look for the something good about each place,as we do,it is an interesting town-with a multitude of options. The atmosphere ,in some,is almost worth a stop. Not every place will be great on every item ,at every time of day,every day of the week,or on an off day. This is no different that many other pretty good restaurants. Yes, we have eaten in most of the "great bbq areas". Memphis will become better to you ,as you gain more experience with the town. Just my $0.02 Tom Tue Jan 11 08:48:16 -0800 2005 740775 0 Tom-Fl 2 740839 "Not every place will be great on every item ,at every time of day,every day of the week,or on an off day." Amen. I'll add this: if you're gonna pass judgement on a place, at least get both the pork shoulder and the ribs. And since some places offer wet and dry ribs, then try both. Tell 'em you're a BBQ nut making a pilgrimmage from out of town and need to sample all three. I'd be surprised if there's a place anywhere that would refuse you a sample. I'm always amazed when someone reports on these BBQ trips and says,"wish I ordered the ribs." Geez, you're halfway across the country, ask for a rib! Tue Jan 11 23:15:43 -0800 2005 740809 0 Steve S. 3 740840 If the owner is there,you will often get a tour of the pit and their story about the process. That is all part of the process for me. Tom Wed Jan 12 08:02:02 -0800 2005 740839 0 Tom-Fl 3 740843 Steve, I didn't say much about this in my reports, but I found the bbq joints in Memphis to be rather inflexible, in that most of them would not (a) sell meats by the pound (w/o sides) or (b) break up ribs in anything smaller than a half slab. I made the request at two or three places and was refused every time. (At Payne's, however, the pitmaster suggested I get a rib sandwich, which would be smaller than a half slab. That was helpful.) I had assumed that it wouldn't be any problem to get meats ala carte (as I usually do in Texas), but that didn't prove to be the case. Not a complaint--just an observation. Scott Link: http://www.dallasfood.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=15 Image: http://www.dallasfood.org/photos/memphisbbq/cozycornermeatribtips.jpg Wed Jan 12 10:37:26 -0800 2005 740839 0 Scott 1 740814 Great report, Scott and excellent pictures. I believe your reviews and overall tone was very fair and evenhanded. Of those you mentioned, my favorite place would probably be A&R for their sandwich and fried pie. Paynes would be a close 2nd. I've given Central's sandwich a shot, but have been disappointed. I may have to try their ribs. Overall, my favorite place in Memphis would be the Bar-B-Que Shop. I would love to read your take on that. Their dry ribs have been superb (except one too dry experience) and their sandwich...I may have to go there to lunch today. Again, great report, especially on your site. I'll keep coming back to it. Tue Jan 11 10:21:11 -0800 2005 740775 0 Tater 2 740872 Tater, you've definitely got to get back to Central for some ribs. Although I would never say I've been disappointed with their sandwich, it's the ribs that are the killer. And if you're not feeling particularly "purist" and just looking for some good junk food, try their BBQ nachos -- a guilty pleasure! No one ever seems to talk about the BBQ nachos you can now find all over Memphis, but I for one am grateful to whoever thought up that concoction! Thu Jan 13 17:33:33 -0800 2005 740814 0 Ginger 1 740820 Thank you Scott for your great report and mouthwatering pictures. We spent 24 hours in Memphis in November and tried both Corky's and Germantown Commissary and your description of the dry rub ribs at Corky's was exactly what we experienced, very disappointing. Willing to give such a well known place a second chance, we stopped at Corky's in Jackson, Tn and had a wonderful lunch. This time had the wet ribs which were falling-off-the-bone delicious. We also ordered the sweet potato fries, which I'm pretty sure weren't on the menu at the Memphis Corky's, they were so darned good!!! I'm curious about the slaw at Payne's. It looks a bit strange......is it a mustard based dressing? Anyway, I agree with Chuck; traveling is expensive and many of us don't get away very often. When visiting a new area it is wonderful to know in advance what to expect......both good and bad. After reading your post I can't wait to try more Q in Memphis. Mary Tue Jan 11 12:47:42 -0800 2005 740775 0 Mary C 2 740838 Memphis slaw is always mustard based. Tue Jan 11 23:03:35 -0800 2005 740820 0 Steve S. 3 740862 What??? Payne's is the only slaw of its kind I've ever had in Memphis (and I lived there 20+ years). Mustard is rarely seen in slaw in any discernible amount in Memphis. Wed Jan 12 21:43:14 -0800 2005 740838 0 biskuit 4 740871 I'd say there's no standard style for Memphis slaw. About half the time you'll get mustard based and half the time not. I've just learned which places I like the slaw, and those I don't, I just ask them to leave it off. Thu Jan 13 17:29:45 -0800 2005 740862 0 Ginger 1 741612 I've been reviewing Memphis restaurants professionally since 1962 and I have never seen a more accurate description of MEM BBQ places, top to bottom, as that provided here by Scott, together with mouth-watering photos. Great to see you discovered Payne's and, FYI, when I BBQ ribs outside, I drive the 10 minutes down to Payne's and buy a quart of their mustard-based slaw to go. Standing alone, the slaw would not be good as "slaw," I think ... but with the chopped pork sandwich it transforms itself and the meat into Hog Heaven on Earth. YOU write Payne's opened in 1972, but I've been eating at that location since 1962 ! CORKY's, on the other hand, is exactly as you write -- touristy, over-priced, ho-hum service (let's turn the tables!), and BBQ that is so-so, at best. Sun Feb 27 15:36:03 -0800 2005 740775 0 Bill E. Burk 2 741613 So, Bill, as one self-proclaimed expert to another, I still think John Wills makes some of the best pork shoulder I've ever had. (see my other posts below) Have you tried it recently? Sun Feb 27 17:44:50 -0800 2005 741612 0 Steve