134008 Thu Dec 29 23:23:40 -0800 2005 3 10 Florida 0 720843 I'm a NYC transplant, and find Orlando to be seriously lacking in such stores comparable to Fairway, Zabar's or Sahadi's (in Brooklyn). (Or Trader Joe's in CA, if that's more familiar.) Fresh Market is a pale comparison, Whole Foods is wickedly overpriced, Petty's is limited. Are there any places to find a good selection of spices and nuts (unpackaged); really, really fine baking chocolate (e.g., Callebaut); really good bread; good, unpackaged cheese; broad selection of produce; genuine Greek yogurt, etc? Also, this board has many, many recommendations for high-priced restaurants catering to vacationers and conventioneers, but what I miss are the moderately priced pubs and bistros that offer interesting,well-prepared food for an ordinary after-work dinner. I live in the Longwood/Apopka/Altamonte springs area, and have pretty much given up eating out, since I prefer not to go to Denny's, Chili's, Taco Bell, etc. Surely Orlando has residents who like to cook with more exotic (or fresher) ingredients that what Publix can offer, or who, when they don't feel like cooking, will pop into a local restaurant for a midweek meal that's reasonably priced yet still worthwhile. Can anyone offer any suggestions? Thu Dec 29 23:23:40 -0800 2005 0 barb 1 720871 Barb: I've been thinking about your post for the last two days. I resisted firing off an immediate response to your questions and comments because I believe you meant them seriously and were looking for real answers, not smart mouth responses. Please take this somewhat windy note in that spirit, If I occasionally sound snide or smart aleck, it is not meant that way. Truthfully, at first read, your post carries overtones that bring to mind some of the reasons natives here call New Yorkers rude names and drive us to put bumper stickers on our cars about how you do things up north. However, the reality is that, to some degree, you are correct. For a city our size with as diverse a community as we are, we don't have an abundance of Zabar's and neighborhood pubs and delis such as those found in New York. I hasten to add that in my travels -- as much as I love New York -- by day five I've been there one day too long. I'll trade living here for living there and, in fact, have done so, in "a New York minute." There are no better grocery stores, at least in the greater Orlando area, than Petty's, Fresh Market, Whole Foods (I agree their prices for organic foods are extreme, but their house brand, 365, offers pretty good value), and Publix. I haven't seen anyone else rushing to post about their neighborhood stores, however it's quite likely there are some I don't know about. An argument can be made that most grocery specialty items are readily available via the Internet. I buy a lot of spices from Penzy's, even though they now have retail outlets around the county, including Jacksonville. There are not a lot of companies willing to invest capital in bricks and mortar when they can be successful without that overhead. I've been doing a frustrating search for two months for 4-plus year old aged Gouda, The best I can do here is 2 years and a promise from Petty's to try and find some. So I am empathetic to what you are saying -- it's likely I could walk into a half dozen cheese shops in NY, such as Terrance Brennan's place or Picholine (or even Dean & DeLuca's) and get it. Specifically running down your list of concerns; Unpackaged spices and nuts -- no place I know, but again, since Whole Foods has good saffron and shelled pistachios by the pound and I can buy my Tellicherry peppercorns in less than a week from Penzy's with a few mouse clicks, why do I want to run my fingers through fresh cinnamon sticks or bulgar wheat? Maybe it's just me. I can't address the baking chocolate (not my thing), although there are enough fine candy makers (Schokolad and Ferris & Foster come to mind) that I have to believe they can get it for you. Or, try calling the Dessert Lady on Kirkman Road. Ask for the owner, Patti Schmidt, and see if she can point you in the right direction. As for bread, artesinal bakers such as Olde Hearth and the Yalaha bakery in Lake County fit your description and, while they may require a drive (not Olde Hearth, they are at Red Bug and 436), we are less likely to get mugged or confronted in the process. You have me on produce. Obtaining regular sources for fresh, high quality produce (and seafood, ironically) is the bane of every chef's existence here and most of the stuff you get in fine restaurants took and airplane ride to get here. The old Florida myth is that we ship the best stuff out of state, but the reality, I believe, is that we don't have the weather and soil necessary to grow the very best basic crops (perhaps with the exception of corn). Finally, regarding Greek yogurt, I love most ethnic foods. I'm sure if you contact a guy named Andreas (by phone) at his roasted chicken store in Maitland (after Jan. 4) he will personally track down the yogurt for you. Tell him I sent you. I can live without it. Regarding your concern about restaurants in your neighborhood, I beg to differ with your comment that we are lacking in "Moderately priced pubs and bistros that offer interesting, well-prepared food for an ordinary after-work dinner." I don't think you've looked hard enough, although posting to this board may change that. Although the places I've mentioned may not be up to your more sophisticated tastes, you won't know if you haven't tried them, will you? Perhaps you have and, if so, some general reactions might be helpful in understand what it is we’ve missed. You'll notice little or no Indian or Thai food places. I believe we have a very short supply of these throughout the region, no just in South Seminole. There are a few on the other end of town or downtown. Khooinor and Indian Delight seem to be the most often mentioned, however I find them inconsistent in both quality and service. Thai Delight in Longwood has some Thai dishes on a Pan-Asian menu, and they are acceptable. As for other cuisines, have you been to Macarana Grille (Longwood) and tried the freshly-made tamales or Mexico Grille between Altamonte and Apopka for their charo beans? To the Amira deli in Altamonte for the kosher menu (and their retail products)? To Uncle Jones', also in Altamonte, for the ribs? Mykanos in Longwood for Greek? Mona Lisa in Longwood's historic district for Italian, especially his Italian seafood, the new GianCarlo's in Winter Springs or Del Dio's in Altamonte for pizza? Habana Grille in Altamonte for Cuban/Latin? Eastern Pearl in Altamonte for Chinese/Thai? Seasons 52 in Altamonte for fresh, healthy American and a superb wine list? In Lake Mary, Harvey's Bistro (American), Jinja (Pan Asian), Dexter's (wine & contemporary American) or Amura (Japanese)? Journey's for world food and the nearby Bonefish Grill (a chain) are also quite good. Old German on 436 in Casselberry does decent German food also. How about Korea House in Longwood? It's good enough for Se Ri Pak, even though I think Shin Jung downtown is better. I'm skipping Beto's, a 24/7, cheap Mexican eatery in Altamonte, but you might find it quaint. Plus, there's always the food we eat here in the south. It may sound exotic for a New Yorker, but may I suggest The Catfish Place in Apopka (you don't need a subway to get there, but it is a bit of a drive) or Black Hammock in Oviedo on Lake Jessup (definitely a trek). Both serve Southern style, mostly fried foods, that are both fresh and tasty, in unique and different settings. Then, if Southern works, take a day trip to Plant City to the Branch Ranch for family -style dining or head to DeLeon Springs where you can make your own pancakes with batter made from stone ground grain ground at the old mill in this state park. I trust you will read this in the spirit that I read your original post. That is; seriously, thoughtfully and directly in response to your legitimate questions and concerns. Speaking for others who regularly post here as well, I would also urge you to come back to us and post your thoughts after trying some of these places. Your comments, criticisms and questions are invaluable to those of us whose lives, in some cases, revolve around the food scene in this part of the world. Bob Sat Dec 31 08:26:30 -0800 2005 720843 0 Bob Mervine 2 720878 Bob, This is an excellent post; I've saved it to my files for upcoming trips to Orlando. You obviously put a lot of thought into your reply. This is exactly what makes Chowhound such an invaluable resource. Sat Dec 31 12:17:05 -0800 2005 720871 0 Dev 2 720944 Bob, folks on here sure are lucky you take the time to answer their posts so completely. In fact, after reading this I continue to bemoan the fact I live in SW Orlando as although we have our share of restaurants due to the proximity to tourist areas, we don't have neighborhood places as good as north Orlando, and I really hate the lack of a Whole Foods or a place like Petty's Anyway, just adding my appreciation, and so I thought I'd tack on a similar list of attractive "regular" or "neighborhood" meal places here in SW, West, and South Orlando, to which maybe you could add comments or additional selections, then we can all bookmark it to reference to new posters: American: Juliana's, Taste (tapas-style) and K in College Park, Bubbalou's BBQ, and Jockamo's (Cajun). Sam Snead's, while a local chain, is still good. Asian/Indian: Nagoya (highly recommended) and Amura for Japanese, Red Bamboo and Soong Thai for Thai (good not great), Memories of India (highly recommended) and Spice Cafe (take-out) for Indian, and Rice Paper is good Vietnamese if not as good as the options downtown. All the Chinese is average or worse. French: We love Le Bon Appetit although they are under new ownership so we'll see how it goes. Also, I guess Le Coq Au Vin qualifies for South Orlando, it's one of Orlando's best. Italian: Cariera's Cucina Italiana and Positano's have good neighborhood feels to them and solid food. Mediterreanean - Cedar's and Middle Eastern Market for Lebanese food. No good Greek anywhere. Mexican/Latin: Taquitos Jalisco for Mexican, Pio Pio for Columbian. Seafood: sad state indeed, only good option for non-chains over here is Lee & Ricks, but what a good choice it is. Beware, it is a dive. Lunch: Yellow Dog Eats. Neighborhood place to spend a bit more: Chatham's Place (and perhaps Antonio's) And finally, a unique option: Machon, the dining room at the Culiary School on John Young Parkway - a definite must try. This is far from an exhaustive list, I tried to avoid chains and pick only places I've personally eaten at in SW, South and West Orlando. Places I'm looking forward to trying include Atothaya (Thai), Anthony's Bistro (Italian), Lenos y Carbon (Columbian), Taqueria Amica Jalisco (Mexican taco stand), Q'Kenan (Venezualan), Matthew's Steaks & More (German) and Chopan Kabob (Afghan). Bob, or anyone else, feel free to add Bill Tue Jan 03 11:51:34 -0800 2006 720871 0 Bill