12448 Thu Feb 19 12:37:57 -0800 2004 8 4 Pacific Northwest 0 22623 My wife and I went to the Dash Point Lobster Shop on Valentine's Day, and I have to say that it ended up being a disappointing experience and that we won't be returning. We had 6:45 reservations, and didn't end up being seated until 7:30. While I can understand waiting a few minutes, and Valentine's Day is obviously a very busy day, a 45 minute wait with reservations is ridiculous. Nor were we the only party that had this kind of delay. On top of it, the front desk staff weren't even being honest about how long the delays were going to be, telling people 5-10 mins rather than 30-45. Nor were they particularly apologetic. Things seemed to improve a little once we were seated, as our server was professional, friendly, and apologetic. The food was pretty average considering the prices. Not bad, but not worth it either. We paid $160 for the two of us, including a $45 bottle of wine, and for that kind of price, I'd expect a little better than what we got. Certainly I can think of any number of seafood places in Seattle that are better for equal or less cost. Probably even the place right up the coast, Anthony's in Redondo. Though we didn't have it, a particularly egregious price seemed to me to be the signature dish, the lobster. It started at $38 for an 8oz lobster, which was frozen Australian lobster, not even live. Finally, to top it all off, I started feeling nauseated about 12PM that night, and spent the next 12 hours praying to the porcelain god, with what sure felt like a bad case of food poisoning. Now it's certainly possible that it had nothing to do with our dinner, but when I called them the next day to see if anyone else had experienced similar symptoms, I was treated brusquely by the staff, given no info or apology, and told only that a manager would call back. Guess what, still waiting for that call back. All in all a big zero in my book. Thu Feb 19 12:37:57 -0800 2004 0 SteveP 1 22624 Steve, I heartily recommend The Cliff House for fine dining in the same area. I've always had a nice balance of atmosphere, service and food there. (As to The Lobster Shop, when friends dined there, there was a slug on the salad greens of one serving. No real apologizes offered. (Not even a comped dessert.) In contrast, The Lobster Shop in Tacoma has a fabulous Sunday brunch and one I recommend highly. Thu Feb 19 13:32:06 -0800 2004 22623 0 Leper 1 22626 Wow, what a bad experience. Some of this could have happened on any night out to dinner (price shock, etc, especially if you're not accustomed to dining out at Seattle waterfront seafood restaurants)... but the long wait and rushed staff is most likely a consequence of the Valentine's Day dinner mayhem. This is why I never ever eat out on Valentine's Day. You're just setting yourself up for failure. Eat there the day before, the day after, or better yet, the following weekend. I don't know that any restaurant can successfully handle the rush and crush of Valentine's Day. It's a formula for failure. Consequently, the last time I dined out on Valentine's Day was several years ago at the place up the coast you mentioned (You called it Anthony's on Redondo, but I think you must mean Salty's on Redondo... as there is no Anthony's on Redondo). Our wait was two hours plus WITH reservations!!!! (can you tell, I'm still angry?) They lied to us too about our seating time too. Our meal was awful, long waits, lukewarm entrees and distracted service. Because I don't believe in writing off a restaurant without a few tries, I returned on other visits and enjoyed my food and the service was fabulous. I think the lesson I learned here was that Valentine's Day dinner out is just a bad idea. Disclaimer: Hubby and I will be celebrating our Valentine's Day at the Dash Point Lobster Shop this year. We eat there several times a year (love the food, think the value is decent) and it's one of our favorite places in Pierce County besides From The Bayou. Thu Feb 19 14:19:48 -0800 2004 22623 0 gc 2 22629 You're right, I meant Salty's, not Anthonys. As far as price shock goes, it was not so much that the prices were high, it was that they were high relative to what I thought the quality was. Having been to Ray's, Etta's, Palisade, and Salty's, I thought all had better value/quality. Perhaps the quality was off because of V-day, but I don't really think that's acceptable. They offered a more limited menu, and if you can't do what you advertise, you shouldn't be in business that way. If they, or any other restaurant are going to have that much trouble hitting reservations, they should do fixed time seatings. All that said, my other choice for that night was the Beach House, which got a bad review just below, so I guess you never know. As for giving places a second try, there are so many new places I'd like to try, as well as places where I've consistently had a good experience, it's difficult for me to justify a second chance. Thu Feb 19 15:54:11 -0800 2004 22626 0 stevep 3 22630 I see your point about a restaurant being able to hold its own on a busy night, but I still maintain that there are very few (if any) restaurants that could operate successfully under conditions like those presented on (and only on) Valentine's Day. Would fixed seatings help? Possibly (maybe more restaurants should consider it). I think the smartest solution is for diners to just say no to eating out on Valentine's Day and visit their favorite restaurant (or a new restaurant) on some other night in February. At the very least, diners shouldn't hold it against a restaurant if it disappoints on the busiest night of the year. I think that diners have a responsibility to accept that if they're going to go out on the busiest night of the year, then they better expect that they might come home disappointed. Just like going to opening night for the biggest movie of the year ... the lines are too long, they always run out of popcorn and you never get the seat you want. Why not wait until the second week to see the movie? The experience will be a WHOLE lot better. Stay home, get some lobster, a few bottles of wine and celebrate Valentine's Day alone -- or surrounded by a bunch of kids decorating cookies and eating pizza (that's what I did this year). 'nuff said. I'm sure everyone's eyes are glazing over anyway since I've beaten this dead horse. Thu Feb 19 17:10:42 -0800 2004 22629 0 gc 4 22632 "At the very least, diners shouldn't hold it against a restaurant if it disappoints on the busiest night of the year." If any of us should have by now learned anything from reading what people write about their restaurant experiences, it's that people hold sacrosanct their prerogative to hold against a restaurant any misstep that seems, to them, significant. While I concur with you to the extent of saying that such treatment would be *less* excusable on a typical night than it is on VD, when all systems are pushed to the limit, it seems completely unreasonable to tell someone who's just had a very negative experience at great expense on an occasion that's important to them that they should get over it, or that it is to be expected. Believe it or not, how a restauranteur handles Valentine's Day is completely under his or her control. One is free to: accept no reservations; accept a small number of reservations and actually reserve the capacity needed to timely honor them; charge more to finance greater temporary assistance and limit crowds; forecast with reasonable accuracy when a table will be available, and openly share this information with prospective diners; etc. If the team running a restaurant wishes to provide good dining experiences on Valentines Day, they have the tools to do so. I'd bet that there are tens of restaurants within a twenty-minute drive of downtown Seattle that do just that. In the problem cases, though, I sense that restauranteurs don't have this focus. Instead, they see either (1) an opportunity to (ultimately unsuccessfully) try to make a larger number of diners happy than on a typical night; (2) a chance to collect a larger number of checks, with higher per-table tabs, than on a typical night; or (3) a typical night that merits no special planning. These approaches lead to bad results for patrons, and I have no problem with those patrons bearing a grudge against the restaurants in question. In fact, for restaurants employing approach (2) above, the kind of adverse economic impact that results from reduced patronage during the year is likely to be the only kind of feedback that leads them to alter their approach in the future. Thu Feb 19 17:55:10 -0800 2004 22630 0 not-the-bad-Steve 5 22638 You present some curious points, especially that restaurants can all but shut down and offer limited seating on Valentine's Day in order to offer a more controlled environment (and thus a better experience). I think ALL restaurants *should* do that on Valentine's Day. But I think restaurant owners would laugh at that. Why? Because limited seating is a big economic risk. There are too many no-shows, too many variables involved (if you suggest nonrefundable prepayment, I suggest you read the Herbfarm threads). In the restaurant world, overbooking is the norm because so many people don't show up when they say they will. I think, as you hinted in your post about the size of the check, that restaurant owners also are guided more by greed than a genuine interest in the customer on Valentine's Day. It's a huge money making day. It takes a lot more effort to satisfy a customer than it does to turn over a table really fast. And of course, this is why I don't eat out on Valentine's Day. Why bother? You're almost guaranteed a bad time. As I said in my last post, "I think that diners have a responsibility to accept that if they're going to go out on the busiest night of the year, then they better expect that they might come home disappointed." Just skip the whole affair. Now everyone's eyes are *really* glazing over.... Thu Feb 19 19:57:21 -0800 2004 22632 0 gc 6 22659 Wrong, wrong, wrong, gc. Not-the-bad-Steve had several salient points that you just dismissed. Any Good restauranteur will ensure that their customers have a good experience on any night, including any holidays. If a place just stuffs the customers in, without giving their normal level of (presumably) good service and food, that's just bad business. Most places I've worked in offer the same reservation times, sometimes allowing a little extra time for romantics to linger, and a special menu. It's not brain surgery, it's just dinner! If you screw your customers on that day, why Should they come back - you've just let them know that you don't care about them. Fri Feb 20 15:09:05 -0800 2004 22638 0 lala 7 22681 I agree that it's up to the restaurant owner to make sure the patrons are happy. It's not my responsibility when I go out on any busy night of the year to make sure the restaurant is run well. I made the choice to patronize them, expecting good service at any time. Sure, there are cases in which some leniency is involved (certainly Valentine's Day is one of them). However, with extended waits (over 1/2 hour) with a reservation, rudeness, poorly cooked food (one thing we can prevent is attending an unknown restaurant on a night like this - stick to your known best bets!), slow service, etc...these are not typical faults to be expected when a place is busy. It indicates poor management, period. We went out for Valentine's dinner (gasp!) at Mashiko. A tiny place, packed, even a 3-piece jazz trio taking up table space. We had reservations. We were greeted nicely, had a short wait (about 10 minutes) which they apologized profusely for, AND they were taking walk-ins. They were turning people away if there was no room, but very nicely. Food came quickly and it was just as good as ever. You can run a restaurant well on Valentine's, or any busy night. Fri Feb 20 19:44:10 -0800 2004 22659 0 AJ