122477 Fri Feb 20 09:51:13 -0800 2004 22 8 Midwest 0 666098 This my first visit to this board. I have reviewed and contributed a bit for several years to the Chowhound boards for NYC, Chicago, and SF. I find valuable information about chowhoundish eats and recommendations about fine dining on all of those boards. But, I was born and raised in Detroit, and consider myself an original Detroit Chowhound. I had the fortune to be able to dine at the finer places, including Larco's, Lelli's, Kelly's, Cadieux Cafe, Clam Shop, Red Devil, Rocky's, and the late, great emporium of the finest seafood (and bean relish!) Joe Muer's, when these places were in the city and operated by the Mr. & Mrs. I moved to Kalamazoo in 1979, and still have family and friends in the area, but none of them live in Detroit. I have always been proud of having been born and raised in Detroit. I travel back to the city every two to three weeks to pick up product for my store. When it was open, I made a point to eat at Joe Muer's every time I had the chance when in the area. In fact, I once negotiated with a client that I would do his work on several conditions, one being that each time I had to come to the area for business, he would buy dinner at Muer's. In fact, my love affair with Joe Muer's is now part of my problem - I never went to the new restaurants in our out of the city to discover what is out there in fine dining and chow places. All that is left of Muer's is the rusting steel splash guard on Gratiot that used to protect those waiting out the door to get a table at the old entrance. My routine trip takes me to the inner city (or belly of the beast as I call it) to an area generally bordered by Gratiot, McNichols and 1-96. I must say that this is one of the most depressed and depressing areas I ever encounter. It seems as if the central core of Detroit has died. I visit Chicago almost as often as Detroit, and I am unable to explain the absolutely astounding differences between these two cities. I know the explanations are cultural, political and racial, and far beyond the purpose of this board. My point is that I mourn the loss of the City of Detroit. I want to find places to eat that demonstrate a vitality and life in the city. I have not found any - I have given up. I am sure that if I travelled to Novi and Troy and RO and Birmingham and Rochester I would find fine places to nibble and drink and chow, but they are most likely just like all the other suburban mall-like places, just like Corner Bakery in Chicago or Panera Bread or .... Fine places, but lacking in character and soul. My best example of this is a place like Chili's, with all the "old" stuff on the walls which is just for looks. I have never even considered looking at this board before, inasmuch as I have concluded that there is no hope of finding information about chowhoundish places in Detroit. But yesterday it dawned on me that I could be wrong - that there may be like-minded people in the Detroit area that can show me the error of my thinking. Where are the places for great chowhoundish food in the city? I like all kinds of stuff, Greek (I know about Greektown, but are there particular places there that are really better than the others?), Lebanese, soul food, delis, and any other chow food. One place I keep eyeballing is Louisiana Gumbo on Gratiot across the street from where Muer's used to be. Anybody know anything about this place? I am certainly willing to discover places outside of the central city, including Dearborn for arabic food, so I am not asking only for information about downtown places. But it would be nice to know about places close to where I am doing my business or on the 1-94, 1-96 or Lodge to 275. I hope to hear from you, and I will contribute all I can to give you all ideas for great chow in the Detroit area. Thanks for any information you provide. Fri Feb 20 09:51:13 -0800 2004 0 cappy 1 666100 I hope this post gets a lot of good replies. I used to work in Detroit, and get back there from time to time, and enjoy searching the City for good places to eat. The list has got to include the Lafayette for coney dogs, just because. On the subject of Joe Muer's, it lives on in spirit whereever I go, because I frequently order the "Cultured Cocktail," which was the house drink at Muer's - vodka martini with a splash of champagne instead of vermouth. Salut. Fri Feb 20 10:44:37 -0800 2004 666098 0 G-Mo 2 666357 I'm orginally from the other side of the border (Windsor) but try to grab eats in Detroit whenever I can. Some places not sure if I've seen mentioned yet. For Mexican bakeries, love Mexican Town Bakery (across the street from Armandos), where I haven't met a baked good I didn't like - cookies, tarts, even the biscuits. For morning/lunch fuel, there's Louie's Corned Beef on Harper, out near either Chalmers or Cadieux (can never remember which). Monsterous breakfasts, creamy scrambled eggs and excellent ham n' bean soup. Indian - partial to Priya out in Troy (Main & Maple), with ultra-creamy butter chicken. I think there's also one out in Farmington. Mon Mar 01 17:02:03 -0800 2004 666100 0 stein88 1 666102 One restaurant in Dearborn that I have always enjoyed (although I have not been there for a few years) is Richter's Chalet. The wait is generally pretty long for the food. However, the soups and the sauced are absolutely the richest I have every had. The place is the epitome of slow food as it takes about two hours to eat there. Richter's Chalet is located on Ford Road near Telegraph. One of my favorite Italian markets is Alcamo's Market on Schaeffer Rd near Michigan Ave in Dearborn. They make their own homemade sausages. Also, they have a freat selection of Italian meats and cheeses. Fri Feb 20 12:59:35 -0800 2004 666098 0 jlawrence01 1 666103 Hi Cappy, Currently, the city of Detroit is trying to revitalize in time to host the 2006 Superbowl. (Prior to that, the MLB 2005 All-Star Game) Slowly, small pockets of life are popping up all over the city. Hopefully, by the time these sporting events occur, some of the gaps of lifelessness will be filled in. I reside in nearby Warren, traveling to Detroit regularly to attend concerts, sporting events etc. Here is a list of some of my favorite places, in various areas of downtown Detroit. Near Comerica Park, Ford Field and Detroit Opera House: Small Plates- excellent tapas. Elwood Grille- Veal/meatloaf sandwich. Detroit Beer Co- tasty microbrew! On Woodward near Orchestra Hall: Atlas Global Bistro- sofisticated dining. My 2 favorite dishes here are the crab cakes, sweet and very meaty. Also, a very impressive lamb shank w/polenta. Shuttle to Orchestra Hall. Wayne State Area: Traffic Jam and Snug- ANY dessert! Mario's- classic italian. Cass Cafe- clam chowder. Twingo's- sweet squash soup. Near MGM Grand Casino and Greektown: (other that greek food!) Jacoby's- a hidden german treasure with tender, tasty rouladen. Sweetwater Tavern- tender, fall of the bone BBQ ribs. Near the DIA: The Whitney- fine, exquisite dining for extra special occasions! The Majestic Cafe- eclectic menu. Try the artichoke and eggs for brunch. Agave- upscale mexican with a tequila bar. Off of Jefferson, near Chene Park: Rattlesnake Club- upscale, Jimmy Schmidt. Stoney Creek Brewery- microbrews and homemade wine. Mexicantown: You can't go wrong if you choose ANYTHING in this area but, Los Galanas (my personal favorite) opened an exceptional mexican seafood grill within their restaurant. I hope this list encourages you to frequent the downtown, Detroit area more often! Fri Feb 20 14:14:39 -0800 2004 666098 0 Yoshi 2 666110 i disagree. you can go very wrong in mexicantown if you stick only to the "biggies" like los galanes or armando's, which are basically tex-mex joints geared towards non-hispanics who think they're having an adventure just by exiting at bagley/vernor. stick to the smaller places -- evie's, taqueria lupita (fantastic lunch special), el comal (in a newer building now but still great central american/south american food), la gloria bakery. btw, if you have any kzoo advice, speak up -- i have to go there a few times a year to see my brother and we always end up at one crappy chain restaurant or another. i could use some help in that dept. (and what is up with the coney place downtown? it's creepy, and yet somehow irresistible.) Fri Feb 20 16:37:05 -0800 2004 666103 0 erin p. 3 666116 Your description of the coney island downtown cracks me up!! It is accurate too, but when were you last there? They finally have put some money into remodeling - they took over space next door and built a nice bar called Ouzo's. Owners are nice people who have owned the place a long time, husband and wife still run it. It ain't Lafayette, but neither is American. (I really shouldn't say that - I have never had a coney at American, always go to Lafayette.) Anyway, the bar is open and that is where you sit now, because they are remodeling the coney restaurant space now. They are certainly cleaning it up. In fact, I was there today for a couple of beers and two coneys. Unfair to compare them to Lafayette, the coneys in Kazoo are OK in their own way - and it has taken me a long time to realize this. Other local fare ranges from the Corner Bar on Mills and Vine - the only big-city style corner bar in the area. Great beer selection, great cigars, great burgers - but is has just been sold so we will see if the new owners change things for the better or worse. Bravo is a local favorite for somewhat Italian, not authentic but good. But the bread sucks. Oakwood Bistro is a local favorite right now, at Oakland and Parkview. American fare - nothing stands out as great, but for Kazoo it is more eclectic than the chains. Fine dining is found at Black Swan at Parkview Hills, which has improved quality markedly under present manager. Nice setting and good food. Great Lakes Shipping Co is the old stand by for us -we sit in the bar and get salad bar and a chicken breast sandwich and good mixed drinks and people leave us alone and we enjoy it. These are some ideas, and I would be happy to elaborate in email if you want. Fri Feb 20 22:35:12 -0800 2004 666110 0 cappy 3 666169 I don't see what's WRONG with Los Galanas? Is the food undercooked, or prepared improperly? I admit, I am NOT a fan of Armando's and I refuse to step foot in Xochimilco's or Mexicantown restaurant! I used to go to El Comal's but, my SPANISH friends turned me on to Los Galanas. They absolutely rave over the seafood bar. I do agree, the rest of the place is a little tex-mex. I had totally forgotten about Taqueria Lupita, what a hidden gem! Cheap too! La Gloria Bakery? Is that the place where you grab a cafeteria tray and choose pastries from behind thick wooden cooler doors? I haven't been there in years! If you like Evie's, you MUST try Tamaleria Nuevo Leon! Mon Feb 23 13:04:13 -0800 2004 666110 0 Yoshi 3 667041 how is the schwarma king in kzoo? i saw it on my last visit and was curiously intrigued... Wed Apr 07 17:56:51 -0700 2004 666110 0 leesh 3 668136 While Detroit's Mexican neighborhood is (relatively) thriving, in the food department it does not equal Chicago. I lived for years in Mexico and Chicago. I would suggest getting off the beaten path of Bagley and on to the less gringo-laden Vernor. I like Taqueria Mexico. Basically just good simple tacos, with traditional fillings (carne asada, al pastor, chorizo, etc). The standout is carne en su jugo, a huge bowl of a sort of bean and grilled meat soup (typical in western Mexico). Drinks: try tamarindo, horchata or jamaica. Driving to Chicago? Exit I94 in Lawrence, MI and try the Restaurante Acapulco for tacos, great gorditas and some good home-style dishes. Clientele is an interesting mix of locals and Mexican farmworkers and their families. Sun Jun 06 20:37:00 -0700 2004 666110 0 almamexicana 1 666113 In Detroit I have always like the Majestic (nice bar, rotating art, duck salad and guacamole BLT are good) and Union Street (across the street from the Majestic on Woodward, just south of the Detroit Institute of Arts) and the Cass Cafe (Detroit beer on tap, cajun fries, rotating menu - Cass a few blocks south of Warren). I ate at Carl's Chop House for the first time in January. I had the porterhouse on their recommendation, and it was a pretty good steak. The steak and cheese soup was excellent. I don't find everything in the burbs to be boring or cookie-cutter similar. Shilla and Cafe Sushi, both on Maple Road in Troy, are very good Korean and Japanese, respectively. At Shilla I like the bulgogi (beef barbecue grilled at the table) and at Cafe Sushi I like everything, but the crunchy rolls (any of them)and the lettuce stem roll are pretty unique. I like Pita Cafe in Birmingham a great deal (shawarma is good, arayis - lamb and pine nuts - is good, the house salad is great), and there is a brand new place on Old Woodward in downtown Birmingham called the Mint with great salads and sandwiches and Illy coffee. Royal Oak has at least a dozen places that are worth trying (ex. Beirut Palace, Peking House, Pronto!, Cometburger...). I live North of Detroit so my picks are biased in that direction, but there are wonderful places to eat in the Detroit area if you scratch the surface. For great fish try Mitchell's, also in Birmingham. I like the cod, the scallops, the clam chowder, the oysters are good...it's actually pretty tough to go wrong there. For Russian, the Fiddler (Orchard Lake and 15) is really, really good. The pelmeni dumplings are great, the borscht is truly excellent. In fact, I might get the borscht tomorrow because this posting is making me so hungry. Just occurred to me, Blue Nile is good Ethiopeian in Ferdale on 9 Mile west of Woodward, and Inn Season on 4th Street in Royal Oak is good vegetarian. This is just the beginning, but to conclude I would just tell you that there is a ton of great stuff to eat near Detroit. Also try the restaurant reviews on www.metrotimes.com, which break it down by city, cuisine, price, and reviewer rating. Hope this helps, I am sure you'll enjoy eating here soon. Fri Feb 20 19:36:48 -0800 2004 666098 0 Jon Stein 2 668056 If you haven't been to OJ's sushi in Farmington Hills yet, do yourself a favor... I've sampled sushi all over NY, SanFran and Chicago -- this place is as good as it gets. @orchard lake and 13 mile. Link: http://www.detnews.com/2003/entertainment/0307/10/e03-210563.htm Tue Jun 01 12:15:01 -0700 2004 666113 0 JARJOSA 1 666114 Great topic. I had to leave Detroit too. I don't get back much but I have noticed several others have posted recommendations that are good. Another place I remember fondly is the Roma Cafe in the Eastern Market. Great old fashioned Italian restaurant. I enjoyed many fine meals there over the years. I haven't been there in at least 10 years but Roma had a longstanding reputation for great food. Fri Feb 20 20:07:46 -0800 2004 666098 0 bdcbbq 1 666117 I have had a few good meals in Mexicantown. I don't remember the name of the restaurant but they were opening a new seafood restaurant down the street. There was also a very good panaderia in the general vacinity. The food is pretty good but not exceptionsl. I would strongly recommend Beans and Cornbread in Southfield. It is a white tablecloth southern/ upscale soul food restaurant. The chef is very creating but he does have strong roots in southern cooking. The place is always very busy. Beans & Cornbread: A Soulful Bistro 29508 Northwestern Hwy. Southfield, MI 48034 248.208.1680 phone Fri Feb 20 22:47:24 -0800 2004 666098 0 jlawrence01 1 666118 Detroit has its places. Decent Cajun at Fishbones. Never been to the rattlesnake club, but I hear it is amazing (though it seems overpriced relative to the same types of places here in Chicago). Lafayette Coney Island is always classic. I know you disparage the suburbs a bit, but one of my favorite Michigan restuarants is Kruse and Muir in downtown Rochester. It was co-owned and the concept came partly from Chuck Muir, who I believe was Joe Muir's cousin or maybe even brother. Irrespective, living here in a food mecca like Chicago, I still long for their amazing seafood preparations. Amazing bouillabaise, honey pecan whitefish, lobster ala creme, maryland chicken etc...there really is no place like it, and the prices are pretty value driven especially at lunch. Don't forget a loaf of their garlic poppy seed french bread. Fri Feb 20 23:43:24 -0800 2004 666098 0 MJN 2 666124 As I understand it, Chuck Muer was a grandson of the founder of Joe Muers, and the brother of Joe Muer Jr., who ran Muer's until it closed. BTW, are you aware that Chuck Muer and his wife and another couple were lost in the Bermuda Triangle a number of years ago - no trace ever found, and he has been declared dead. Sad. I agree that Chicago does not have seafood to compare to Joe Muers or any of Chuck Muers high end places. I don't know why. Cape Cod Room and Shaw's are good, but not great. The bread you refer to is called "house bread" and made famous at Charley's Crab, Chuck Muer's first place. It is now found in all kinds of places, and made from frozen pizza dough, but I have a book of Muer's recipes with the original from scratch version that is a favorite at home. Sat Feb 21 10:37:16 -0800 2004 666118 0 cappy 1 666131 I agree witt you about the core of Detroit . What a mess , and a shame . However , there are some gems hidden the rubble . I have in my lap my folder full of carry out menus and food related articles , and I will attempt to offer some suggestions . For the best carry out fried chicken anywhere on the planet try Chicken Shack , various locations all over . In Ferndale there is Star of India , on 9 Mile , a good indian place . The lunch buffet is a good intro to the cuisine , if you are already familar with it skip th ebuffet and come back for the more adventurous dinner menu . Como's in Ferndale makes great pizza and good italian -american , and is a fun , busy place with a great outdoor patio . Expect a diverse crowd . Royal Oak is definately NOT your typical suburban cookie cutter food area . Off the top of my head , Beirut Palace has Lebanese and middle-eastern food that matches anything I've had at La Shish or anywhere .Excellent . Cedar Garden is also good middle-eastern . Little Tree does sushi , Japanese , Korean , and Phillipine inspired cuisine in a classy understated dining room that belies it's "suburban" locale . A really good place . LePanto is good high end Italian , haven't been there in a while . Mongolian BBQ may be a chain now , but they started right there on Main Street . Admittedly a little gimmicky , ( you pick your own ingredients , as in walk up and place them in your own bowl , and they stir-fry them on huge round cast iron cooktops ) all you can eat , expect to spend a while at the bar waiting for a table . Like I said , a little gimmicky , but the food is really good . Astoria Pastry Shop ( which also has a location in Greektown ) has no sit down dining , but the goodies are amazing to look at and just as delicious . Peking House is high end Mandarin and sezhuan (?) with some Cantonese dishes , a local institution and consistently terrific . Lily's Seafood is very good also , given your apparently extensive experience with great seafood I would hate to steer you somewhere less than satisfactory , but they have been very good on at least three consecutive visits . There are lots more places in R.O. , these are just my faves , all are within a mile of 11 Mile and Main (Livernois), just north of 696 . I also must second the Shilla suggestion ( 15 Mile Troy ) . Well worth the trip . Mon Jin Lau is at 15 Mile and Stephenson just west of I-75 , as much as I hate the term "fusion" they do pan-asian right . Beautiful food , tasteful decor , and it is delicious . Last time I was there , we paid the sushi chef an extra $100 to stay a little late to keep making us more sashimi platters , man , so good . Ooh , I forgot , Royal Oak also has the Main Street Diner , just trust me , go there . Now . Also , a good place to check out is freep.com , the wed site for the Detroit Free Press . The Food section of the Jan. 6 2004 edition has a great summary of downtown ( Detroit ) restaurants . See if it's available in their archives . Many of them have already been mentioned , Traffic Jam & Snug ( excellent 511 W. Canfield ) , The Whitney , Mario's , Agave , Union Street ( a must before Tiger games ) Honets John's ( not sure about the food , but man what a bar experience ) Sala Thai , Da Edoardo , Intermezzo ( 1435 Randolph , a great place ) Congress Restaurant Lounge ( supposedly an experience , never been there myself ) , Cyprus Taverna in Greektown , in my opinion , the best of the best in Greektown ,in answer to your question , yes there is a difference between all the greek places . They all serve about the same dishes , but the Taverna just does them much better ,try the braised lamb shank , you'll ask for extra bread to get every last drop of the braising broth . Just lamb shank , some kind of stock , lemon juice , salt , and oregano , simple , but perfect . They do just about everything a step or three better that everyone else . On a completly different level ( think qiuck lunch and a beer ) try The Golden Fleece . Enormous gyro cookers that sear you right in the front door cooking hand made chicken and lamb and beef , octopus salad to die for , all served on wax paper in red plastic baskets combo style , the perfect pre- Red Wings meal . The satellite TV straight from Athens is a nice touch too . Tom's Oyster Bar has several locations , you can't go wrong at any of them , but the origional on Mack on the east side is best , the downtown location on Jefferson is a good bet too . Oysters in Detroit sounds kinda scary , but they are actually pretty damn good . Their crawfish bisque is the equal of anything I've had in New Orleans . I have many more suggestions of dining and haven't even touched on shopping , but now I am hungry and must order a Como's pizza , fresh garlic , tomatos , and pepperoni ... mmm... Sat Feb 21 21:38:16 -0800 2004 666098 0 GoalieJeff 2 666138 WOW!! There is some life in the city! Thanks for all the ideas. If you have more ideas you can post here or email to me. I would enjoy keeping in touch with you to tap into some of these and other spots. BTW, is the Como's in Ferndale the same one that used to be on Ward just south of 8 Mile in Detroit?? That was one of my favorite places to get pizza and salad as a kid. Also, do you know if the Green Lantern is still open on John R by 12 Mile (?). They had great pizza and they cut it with big scissors. One more - do you have any information about the Louisiana Gumbo place across Gratiot from where Muer's used to be? For some reason I am attracted to that place. Thanks again, and I will report back on what I find. Sun Feb 22 09:00:41 -0800 2004 666131 0 cappy 3 666153 1: not sure if Como's is the same or not , it has been at 9 and Woodward for as long as I can remember . 2: Yes indeed , the Green Lantern is still open , I forgot about that place , they may make even better pie that Como's . Thanks for reminding me about it . 3: I have never gotten anything from Louisiana Gumbo , but , as a New Orleans geek at heart , I have also noticed it on my trips aroung eastern market . Reveiws I have seen were pretty favorable , carry out only , creepy plexiglass counter ( it is Detroit , after all ) but supposedly fine food . I'll have to try them out , too . Sun Feb 22 22:51:51 -0800 2004 666138 0 GoalieJeff 4 666156 I've been to the Gumbo place a couple times - It's OK. Nothing to do a jig about, but it's okay. Mon Feb 23 00:30:04 -0800 2004 666153 0 wolf 1 666285 I have recently moved back to the Detroit area and am still in the process of getting to know the dining scene - but many of the posts are very accurate. I currently live in Royal Oak and there is nothing cookie cutter about some of those restaurants!!! Ditto what everyone else said about Little Tree (almost a weekly habit for me) and Lily's seafood - I will also add Sangria's for great Spanish and tapas. Someone was asking about Cajun food - try Howe's Bayeou (spelling...) in Ferndale. In Detroit I have tried Agave (loved it) and tried to get in repeatedly to Intermezzo and Sweet Georgia Brown (upscale soul food) but they book out well in advance. I took some co-workers to Bacco in Southfield (i think) instead and it was a wonderful upscale Italian - awesome service too. That said - the Detroit area is still improving, but there is great life in the restaurant options! Enjoy! Thu Feb 26 14:50:26 -0800 2004 666098 0 Ludlows23 1 667038 I have very fond memories of the old Joe Muer's...my favorites were the bean salad (must be eaten with the cottage cheese!), flounder stuffed with crabmeat, and the dessert "Somethin' Special" - anyone remember that? As I recall, it was raspberry sherbet in a wine glass with blueberries and strawberries, and asti spumante poured over. Luscious! The bartender would indulge me with a vodka martini with a kumquat instead of a lemon twist. I remember being stunned that they even HAD kumquats! I live in California now, but I still think of my favorite Detroit restaurant, and often. Too bad it had to close. I understand Deep Blue in Southfield is quite a departure. Wed Apr 07 10:53:01 -0700 2004 666098 0 suzanne 1 667258 I would recommend three places for dinner. All 3 have are noteworthy because of the decor that most people would find disagreeable. However, these places catch my attention specifically because people go for the food and not the decor. Harlequin Cafe, West Village- I think only 4 employees. Owner/Chef, cocktail, bus, short order cook. Dinner will take forever (3 hrs+), know this ahead of time. Before going the first time I called to get a copy of the menu. I was told he wouldn't know until 3 pm that day after being at the market (usually has the Orange Bird). Food is great, but again service is relaxed. Roma Cafe- Someone else mentioned this one. checkered table clothes and tuxedoed waiters. All the food is great. Warning- If you get the veal parmesan, you will surely be unable to find a match anywhere else. Courthouse Brasserie- By the front door, you would think you were going into an illegal gambling house. The decor is 40 yrs old. The food is nothing short of amazing. Be sure to get a reservation as I have found it booked a few times. I think there are only 10 - 12 tables. Thu Apr 22 15:48:27 -0700 2004 666098 0 Alan