How do you pronounce SUNDAE ( ice cream sundae)?
- Captain Asparagus Apr 23, 2002 12:45 PM
How do you pronounce the work sundae? As in ice cream sundae.
Pronounce it like the day of the week? Like Sunday?
Or like sundah? Sun-dah. Im curious.
Off topic a little.
Fired up my smoker last Sunday. An old Oklahoma Joe. 2 whole pork butts and 6 slabs skinned baby backs ( bought these at Sams). Plus 12 Johnsonville brats.
The whole pork butts I bought at Schnucks. Not the picnic roast but the shoulder or blade roast I think its called. Marinaded/brined in a 2 ½ gallon baggy with fresh lemmon juice, salt , ground pepper,
dry mustard powder, apple juice, worstershire sauce, apple cider vinegar, greek seasoning, can't think of the name, and water. I put the butt in the baggy, add this mixture to cover. For 2 days. Marinaded the ribs for 1 day. If youve never brined pork I sugject you try.
I put the butts on at 7 am and the ribs and brats on at noon. Used wood for the first hour then charcoal for the rest. I like applewood or pecan but had a lot of oak so used that. There was so much smoke coming out of my yard, it looked like I was burning a soggy king sized mattress. My neighbors must hate me.
I apply a sauce of butter, brown sugar, honey and pretty much ground pepper during the last 2 hours. I spray with apple juice about every half hour. The trick is to render the fat without drying out the meat or making it too mushy.
At 5 pm it was all ready. The pork butts fell apart into chunks of juicy
tasty meat that I pulled apart into bite sized chunks. Awsum. I must of eaten a pound of meat just doing this.
The ribs were nice rich almost mahogany colored slabs. No fat. Moist meat, a little peppery offset by the honey/brown sugar butter baste. Slightly chewy meat that comes right off the bone. I would offer you some but I am eating the last ones for lunch today. I had to hide them and am eating them in secret because they are too good to share.
Also, I saw that
a new oriental restaurant is opening on Olive just east of McNight, on the north side. Will report on that when it does.
TIA for the help with the sundae question.
Sundae is pronounced like the day of the week. In the late 1800"s it was invented as a alternative to carbonated beverages, ie. ice cream sodas, to be consumed on Sunday because religous moralists said that they were not appropriate to serve and consume on a holy day. The spelling was changed to Sundae to prevent outcry against naming a food sacrilegiously after the Sabbath.
re: The Rogue
I've lived in St. Louis for the last 26 years, and continue to be surprised at how many people here still say "sunduh." I've long suspected the pronunciation bears a relationship to its origins (see post of The Rogue, above). Between the influence of those of us non-natives and the broadcast media, I imagine we'll see this quaint pronunciation go the way of "warsh" and "zink" (for "wash" and "sink"), two long-time St. Louis mispronunciations. People still say Highway "Farty," though.
Thank you, Winnie. Having lived in St. Louis for 30 years, every time I'd hear someone pronounce it "Sunday", I'd wonder where they were from originally. Standing in line at Ted Drew's, (sp?)I'd hear "Sunduh", time after time. It may very well be a "county" or "city" thing.
The original poster had some very delicious things to say about barbecue and I'm sorry it's gotten lost in this etymology discussion. Captain Asparagus, if you're still with us, I loved your description of cooking the pork butt, and brats. It made me homesick for St. Louis. Pat
re: Pat Hammond
Forgot to add. Put Maull's Kansas City style barbecue sauce on the pulled pork and served on a toasted bun topped with finely diced creamy cole slaw.
The brats were smoked until they split and then I finished them over the fire with some sauce until they were slightly charred. A little pickle relish alongside on the bun. Fresh squeezed lemonade too.
re: Pat Hammond
Welllllll -- I'm sorry to disagree, but I have lived in St. Louis since I was 10 (over 43 years now), and in my experience, people I know in St. Louis County (North, South, and West) and in St. Louis City pronounce this word "Sunday". I can't remember the last time I heard anyone in St. Louis pronounce this word "sunduh". I guess we just move in different circles, linguistically speaking.
[Continuing, but off-topic, but someone else brought these things up] And I have never heard anyone here pronounce "zink" instead of "sink".
However, I have to agree that at least two St. Louis pronunciations are colloquial: "warsh" instead of "wash" and "farty" instead of "forty".
And then of course there are at least two other things that are unique to St. Louis:
toasted ravioli (really they are deep-fried, not toasted, then served with marinara sauce, and delicious!!)
and the question to assess someone's background: "Where'd you go to high school?" (McCluer, just in case you're wondering)
re: Phil Baker
Hi Phil, You'll still hear "zink" in parts of St. Louis among older (much older than you are) people of German background. I think the "farty" vs. "forty" pronounciation comes from the Irish. As for an "ice cream sunduh", I heard it all the time, from friends (older, again), in South St. Louis. Hang around Ted Drewes' sometime and listen. You'll hear it.
For a moment there, that was like reading a message on one of the bbq lists. Have you tried using a marinade of orange/lime juice, thin-sliced onions, and garlic? That's basically the Cuban technique for a roast pork, but it works well in a smoker, too.
I run a New Braunfels Big Texas. My neighbors hate me, too.
Many thanks to all chowhounds who replied.
I found this info at
"Ice Cream Sundaes were created when it became illegal
to sell ice cream with flavoured soda on a Sunday in the American town of Evanston during the late 19th
century. Some traders got around it by serving it with
syrup instead, calling it an 'Ice Cream Sunday' and
eventually replacing the final 'y' with an 'e' to avoid
upsetting religious leaders."
This is basically what The Rogue said.
Using Websters I came up with this
pronunciation:" s&n-dE, -(")dA " which seems to imply
that the sun-dah version is ok too. Myself, being from St. Louis I say "sun-dah", not sundee or sunday. However I do call a mosquito a mosquito and not a mosquitah so hopefully, this means I am not a total hillbilly. I'm not sure if this is any help. Like different versions of a recipe which make the same thing. Oh yes, in my pork marinade I neglected to mention I use sugar also. I like the bakers sugar because it disolves so easily. Thanks Alex for your marinade recipe.
I love Cuban roast pork and almost all cuban food now that I think about it. Unfortunately it is hard to come by in St. Louis. Keep that smoker smokin.