112587 Tue Apr 15 13:19:19 -0700 2003 28 7 Chicago Area 0 611431 Whatever happened to RST? I miss his very educational, and well written posts. Tue Apr 15 13:19:19 -0700 2003 0 Jim S. 1 611434 I am busy planning a big feijoada bash for the coming week-not this Friday (which is Good Friday) but possibly the following. Can I get a sense of how many people would be interested? It would be a take-out, just like the Keralan event and will be a full feijoada meal (with farofa + the works), pick-up probably 5-7 p.m., near the Fullerton exit of the 90/94. Price to be confirmed, but I don't expect it to be more than $12-15 pp. Also in the works: Tamales de venado en mole amarillo I revisited Taqueria Oaxaca over the weekend (and had a stunning Oaxacan barbacoa there: Oaxacan barbacoa is not the same thing as barbacoa from elsewhere: it's a very specific dish: it's, along with mole negro, the greatest of Oaxaca's dishes). Chatted with Guadalupe and Elena about some of the more unusual Oaxacan specialties. I learned that Sra. Elena knows how to make venison tamales-a form that CANNOT be found in the city of Oaxaca itself but is still made in certain towns/villages of the coast. They agreed to prepare this for me if I can bring them the venison. I did my math using the Cocorico game meat prices that ReneG posted on the board and came up to a per-tamale price of $3.50 to $4 (!!!) The costing was based on a whole leg (bone-in) of about 20 lb, priced at $12 per lb. I also figured that the leg would render 100 tamales or so and I thought that I could probably round up 8-10 people from this board to share the cost. However, $4 per tamal (3 inch long tamales, wrapped in totomosle = dried corn husks) might be a little steep, specially if you see it as $4 x 12 = $48 (!!!). So, maybe we could find a cheap source for venison (Gwiv...?) or perhaps Chef Ron could suggest a different, cheaper cut that might work as well. Otherwise, we could also do it with lamb or goat but then the "frisson" and the thrill of eating venison tamales would be lost. Suggestions? **** David D I read your posts on Oaxaca on the Intl Board. Will try to find some time tomorrow to reply and make additional points. **** Re: Easter Don't miss the extraordinary wealth of Easter eating in Chicago (this Sunday!) specially from the less-obvious Christian communities. Malabar (Keralan) will have buffalo and other Easter specialties. The Iraqi/Assyrians will also have festive foods available. RST Tue Apr 15 14:14:08 -0700 2003 611431 0 RST 2 611435 RST, After that marvelous Malabar/Keralan dinner you helped engineer, I'd be interested in any dinner that you had a hand in planning. It sounds like you're tentatively planning the event for April 25th, which I could not make, but if it turns out to be another day, I'd definitely try to make it. David Tue Apr 15 14:31:19 -0700 2003 611434 0 David Hammond 3 611439 So by Taqueria Oaxaca do you mean: 1) Restorante Oaxaca on south Ashland (I assume so) 2) Taqueria la Oaxaquena (which I recall you were not so sold on as others here) 3) Yet a third similarly-named place? Tue Apr 15 14:47:51 -0700 2003 611435 0 Mike G 2 611437 Oh, I forgot. Have also been talking about planning a class at Taqueria Oaxaca on preparing different kinds of Oaxacan moles. Or perhaps a class (to be taught by Guadalupe) on making ONE mole: the mole negro (toasting the ingredients, chiles, metate plus short-cuts with blender for the modern kitchen etc). It will most likely be a class for up to 15-20 followed by a full Oaxacan meal, incorporating classics + unusual items. I have been very busy and cannot do all the logistical planning for this on my own. If anyone else wants to help out with this, let me know. Also: Shanghai I stopped by Moon Palace a couple of weeks ago and nearly had a heart attack when I saw their Chinese menu. It was crammed full of the most unusual Shanghai specialties, things that you cannot find in your run-of-the-mill NYC Shanghai restaurants. I thought that their "calling card" (the first line of the menu) of "b'i tan tou fu" (thousand year-old eggs "creamed" with tofu) made a strong, uncompromising opening statement. I also found it very intriguing that the entire Chinese menu is printed in "simplified script" (i.e. Communist Chinese script): this suggests that their main clientele is from the Mainland and not from Taiwan/HK/SEAsia and that the business and the cooking is geared towards them. Definitely a menu to be explored with greater care and sensitivity. Richard Tue Apr 15 14:37:44 -0700 2003 611434 0 RST 3 611455 I would be interested in this as well, for both my wife and me. Aaron Tue Apr 15 16:42:07 -0700 2003 611437 0 Aaron D 2 611440 Hi! AT least 3 from my side for feijoada. My Dad has been raving about feijoada ever since having it in Brazil. I was to Brazil twice but not on the weekends when it is served. Business dinners and business travel: squeeze all the fun of having been there done that. I am also interested in the mole. My Aunts from my Grandfather's marriage are from Puebla. I've been there for Christmas and other occasions when moles are made. Unfortunately, I arrive and everything is done. So I would certainly be interested. Regards, CAthy2 Tue Apr 15 15:08:30 -0700 2003 611434 0 CAthy2 2 611444 I am interested for 2, possibly 4. And kudos to Jim for summoning the mystical RST back to the board! Tue Apr 15 15:40:36 -0700 2003 611434 0 Aaron D 2 611447 I would be very interested both in the Feijoada Fest and learning about making Moles. Frankly, my at home attempts at feijoada have been disastrous. Plus, I have a growing interest in mexican cooking recently. So both would be interesting. Tue Apr 15 15:51:46 -0700 2003 611434 0 YourPalWill 3 611461 Will -- Are you using any Mexican cookbooks that you'd recommend? Thanks. Tue Apr 15 19:56:30 -0700 2003 611447 0 HungryHoward 2 611450 I'd be interested in one for feijoada. I'd go for two, but my significant other is strictly vegetarian. And I think she'd notice, although the sides might work. hmmm. And I'd definitely be interested in the mole class. I've been practicing dishes from Diana Kennedy's book thanks to RST and could use all the help I can get. This board has expanded my food knowledge and waistline. Tue Apr 15 16:15:54 -0700 2003 611434 0 Jim S. 2 611460 Dear RST, My GF and I would be very interested both in the Feijoada Fest as well as a mole class. Count us in on this and any other get togethers you may have in the future. Regards, Ligament aka Jason Tue Apr 15 19:44:11 -0700 2003 611434 0 Ligament 2 611467 RST, Hmmm - Friday the 25th right? I will do it (how could I not after your tips on Oaxaca?). Please clarify - is this a takeout and then go eat it on your own or a takeout and go eat it some place as a group? I am cooking a major meal for a friend's bday, with big wines (get out the 82 Leoville, because it is a big bday) and ref'ing, see below, the next day. Anyway, let me know. Course, I am interested in the Mexican cooking as well, though my schedule always and particularly now (I referee soccer and it is the high season) and the haul from Naperville are likely to present a challenge. Count me as two for feijoada, which I honestly cannot remember eating since a little jaunt to Rio in the very early 80's, lord help and age me. Look forward to your reply on Oaxaca, here, there or in my email, and thanks yet again - my gratitude overfloweth, with the nutmeg ice cream. d Tue Apr 15 22:58:33 -0700 2003 611434 0 dickson d 3 611468 clarification - very interested in tamales de venado, possibly interested in mole class. hopefully in my meander, I was clear on the feijoada, at least. d Tue Apr 15 23:12:52 -0700 2003 611467 0 dickson d 2 611469 Following up on the tail-end of your post, might you enlighten as to what Iraqi/Assyrian Easter specialties might be? Thanks. Tue Apr 15 23:14:25 -0700 2003 611434 0 foodfirst 3 611473 I'll reply to foodfirst's post first before I do the others since it's morning in her time zone at this moment as I get ready to head off to bed. Hi foodfirst, Thanks again for the translation. Before anything else, can you check the Chicago board again tomorrow: I have a question for you about Thai crab roe paste (it's used in one of the recipes in David Thompson's book). I found a source here in Chicago for bottles of "taba ng talangka" which is Filipino crab roe paste (from river crab, from Pangasinan province: very garlicky, no heat, smells like some fish sauce/patis might have been sauteed in) and wanted to know if you have tried the Thai counterpart and if it is readily available in Bangkok. I am wondering how different they are one from the other. I have a couple of links for you on taba ng talangka but can't build them into a post now because it's almost 1:30 and I'm beat. Re: Easter specialties among Iraqi/Assyrians I don't know. I guess I'll find out on Sunday, unless I'm tempted to check out Macedonian instead or unless I decide to go look for some pretty painted eggs in our Ukrainian Village. I am guessing that there would be quozi (also qu'zi = roast stuffed baby lamb), a famous feast day dish. Quozi is actually available any day of the week at our Iraqi restaurants but this everyday version is much less elaborate. It uses selected cuts instead of the whole lamb. I think that ReneG might have posted something about quozi. I might also have written something about it but can't remember for sure now. In areas where almond trees are grown, there might be a springtime stew of lamb and baby almond fruits, such as the one we talked about in the "green almond" thread a few months back. But this is pure speculation as I know nothing about the specific Easter traditions of this group. There have been several different waves of Assyrian immigration to Chicago since the 19th century. The majority of these Assyrians are from the Iraqi cultural (and culinary/gastronomic!) sphere, i.e. from areas that have through history and through changing historical circumstances and border shifts looked to/been governed from Baghdad. There is a smaller group of Iranian Assyrians (I think that there is a presence in far N. Clark, above Andersonville, but also on Devon) and an even smaller one of Syrian Assyrians. A lot of our Iraqi Assyrians are city folks, from Mosul itself; but just as many are from little villages. (Watch out for car repair shops, travel agencies, bakeries called Nineveh or Babylon.) One of the most intriguing of the recent waves of immigration (as recent as the 80s and 90s) is that of an entire extended family from one single village outside Mosul. This family is specially relevant to us on this board bec different members of this village operate some 6 or 7 successful food-related businesses around town, including several prominent restaurants on the important Kedzie/Lawrence corner as well as a manufacturer of packaged (for groceries) Chinese spring rolls + kubbat mosul etc. I may be "reading" this incorrectly, but I sense that the newest waves of immigrants do not quite see eye-to-eye with the older groups (just as the recent Czech arrivals do not identify with Bohemians, and just as the Palestinians from 63rd do not share the same sets of identification and politics as that of the newer groups on Lawrence). I think that the historical experiences, the suffering, the goals are completely different. The newer groups seem to identify themselves more as part of the Iraqi nation. And although they are an ethnic minority and although they are Christians, they consort more comfortably with their Muslim compatriots and see themselves more as part of a modern, cosmopolitan pan-Arab world. This is why on any given day, any of the back areas of these "Iraqi/Assyrian" restaurants (the area where they watch soccer, or Al-Jazeera) sees a stream of Assyrians, of Muslims (many from Basra live in Chicago and come here), of Palestinians, Lebanese etc. I think that JeffB perceived a bit of this cosmopolitanism, this sense of a gathering and a crossroads at Lawrence/Kedzie when he marvelled at the excitement in the air at an Egyptian restaurant nearby. Again, the above is strictly my own interpretation and analysis and I may be completely off the mark. Foodfirst, all this history is simply to underline the complexity and the multiplicity of immigrant experiences and to suggest that there might not be one single Assyrian Easter tradition but several. On Saturdays, I usually go by Kedzie/Lawrence to eat a bowl of pacha (there's a post on this) which is the great Saturday dish of Baghdad/Iraq (and the great Sabbath dish of the Baghdadi Jews before they were forced out en masse during the 50s). If I go by on Sunday morning, there is dolmas to be had. On Sunday night, there is kubba labaniah (lamb and bulgur patties in a yogurt sauce). Who knows what's to be had this Easter Sunday? **** Hey guys, There's been a lot of changes on Lawrence. George of George's Kabob has moved around the corner to Kedzie. My friend Munzer of King Falafel (Syrian) has moved and his old space is now the first Vietnamese restaurant on Lawrence (this magical street keeps morphing before our eyes). A new pan-Latin place called Maya Sol has also opened. We need to get reviews of the three new/reopened Egyptian restaurants. Kedzie/Lawrence is now without a doubt the most vibrant single "Middle-Eastern" cluster in this country outside of Brooklyn. Perhaps, it's now THE most vibrant and dynamic. And for those who still think that Middle-eastern is "all the same", I would like to invite them to step into (the Lebanese) Al-Khyam and then walk one block north to Holy Land Grocery (Egyptian) and marvel at the completely different inventory at these places. RST Wed Apr 16 03:50:23 -0700 2003 611469 0 RST 4 611476 " We need to get reviews of the three new/reopened Egyptian restaurants." If you mean Luxor, Nefertiti and The Pharoah's, there have been reviews of both Luxor and The Pharoah's. Wed Apr 16 08:41:01 -0700 2003 611473 0 Mike G 5 611479 Per annieb (thru email), a new Nicaraguan is about to open: Yambo at Roscoe and California. She also sent me quite a bit of info on diff styles of feijoada, which I'll synthesize for the board later on. Am headed out for a long brutal day. Ciao. RST Wed Apr 16 09:40:01 -0700 2003 611476 0 RST 6 611482 Well that explains it... (And I never did realize their was a Shanghai place called Moon Palace...) VI Wed Apr 16 09:42:33 -0700 2003 611479 0 Vital Information 4 611571 Wow, thanks for the education on Iraqui Assyrian food in Chicago. Thanks also for making my mouth water for food which I have no hopes of finding in my neighborhood! ;< BTW I recently read of an Iraqui cookbook written by a woman who immigrated to the US some years ago. It sounded quite comprehensive and worth acquiring. Now I just need to remember where I read about it... To avoid confusion I'll start a new thread about crab roe. Wed Apr 16 22:59:01 -0700 2003 611473 0 foodfirst 5 611590 there was an article in the NYT I think about it recently, If I am thinking of the same book - the garden of Eden cookbook? from what I remember it's printed on demand there's some more info and recipes at the attached link Link: http://www.iraqicookbook.com/contents/intro/intro.html Thu Apr 17 09:41:37 -0700 2003 611571 0 zim 6 611593 The old Daisy Iny cookbook is availble at the local libraries but can also be downloaded (free) from the net. Yes, the entire cookbook: it will take a while on slow computers. Claudia Roden has plenty of materials on Iraqi cooking (specially in the marvellous, magical volume on Jewish cooking thorugh the world: there's even a section on Baghdadi Jews in India and Burma). Clifford Wright has excellent information and historical background: specially on the great flowering of Baghdadi cooking in the 13th century. RST Thu Apr 17 10:27:40 -0700 2003 611590 0 RST 7 614664 Hi- I've been looking for Daisy Iny's book for a verry loooong time - where can it be downloaded?!?!? Please respond - thanks in advance! Eph Tue Jun 24 22:27:42 -0700 2003 611593 0 Eph Linden 8 614670 Eph, Here's the URL to download and/or view the book. Enjoy, Gary Link: http://www.mukamal.com/TOC.htm Wed Jun 25 02:48:52 -0700 2003 614664 0 G Wiv 6 611594 The old Daisy Iny cookbook is availble at the local libraries but can also be downloaded (free) from the net. Yes, the entire cookbook: it will take a while on slow computers. Claudia Roden has plenty of materials on Iraqi cooking (specially in the marvellous, magical volume on Jewish cooking thorugh the world: there's even a section on Baghdadi Jews in India and Burma). Clifford Wright has excellent information and historical background: specially on the great flowering of Baghdadi cooking in the 13th century. RST Thu Apr 17 10:28:49 -0700 2003 611590 0 RST 7 611658 Querido RST, how I wish I had more time to read all the pearls of wisdom you post on this board. At least I jumped on this thread when Iraqi in the header on Hot Posts caught my eye. I love Claudia Roden's cookbooks. Here's a link to my post on a recent dinner at home I hosted with a fish recipe that's adapted from one of hers. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/22216#81833 Thu Apr 17 19:40:55 -0700 2003 611594 0 Melanie Wong 8 611729 Hey Melanie, Haig's! That's on Clement and 8th! I used to live on 8th across from Queen of the Sea or whatever the name of the school is. I used to get my coffee at Haig's. Can't believe it's still around: Haig's is ancient. Which one is Wing Hing Seafood? It rings a bell but I can't place it mentally. Is it on the same block as Green Apple but on the south side of the street? Incidentally, I used to go to Ocean (Chinese) about a block west of 8th, n side of street for live abalones (in season, of course) I choose myself from their tanks. Is it still there? Talking of Assyrian, when I was going to school in the Bay Area (late 80s/early 90s), there used to be an Assyrian restaurant called Yaya's on 9th. Is it still there? But I think that it represented a different Assyrian culinary tradition though. I don't think that it was specifically Iraqi-Assyrian. Narsai David is Assyrian. And I think that he was born (?) in Chicago. Re: Shanghai Moon Palace Melanie, the one single supposedly-authentic Shanghainese restaurant in town has an extensive Chinese-only menu (with a lot of very unusual things!) printed in simplified script. Is this common? Have you seen a lot of menus in simplified script around? My understanding is that the Chinese from the diaspora (HK, Taiwan, US, SEAsia etc) cannot read simplified script. Wouldn't the use of this in a Chinatown menu be tantamount to committing commercial suicide? Could this possibly suggest that they are serving a very specific subgroup/clientele and are satisfied within that niche? Re: Mourvedre The most interesting discussions on Mourvedre on the net can be found on Victor de la Serna's elmundovino.com (the wine chat board of the Spanish newspaper El Mundo). They have had several long threads (often involving winemakers-from Jumilla and elsewhere) with very informed exchange of information on such issues as the variety's performance on various types of soil/terroir, ideal yields, distinction among clones, ageing curve of the wine and so on. For California, most people associate Mourvedre with the Clines, Doug Danielak, Steve Edmunds etc (all stupendous winemakers!), but I still think that the winemaker who understands Mourvedre most profoundly is Paul Draper. **** Re: samak (fish) + Baghdadi Masgouf There was a picture on p6 of the Chicago Tribune last Monday (or perhaps Tuesday) of a man squating on the ground and grilling fish in a setting of rubble and destruction. Both Claudia Roden and Daisy Iny list the different types of fish that could be found in the Tigris. These are "shabbut" (described as being like whitefish), "biz" (similar to halibut), abu swaif (like porgy), bunmi + dhakar (like carp) and jarri (a type of catfish). Masgouf is one of the most famous dishes of Baghdad but also an institution/way of life. In the summer, the Baghdadis head to the islands on the Tigris to grill fish over a brushwood fire and to enjoy it in a sauce of tomato, onion, spices. In Chicago, catfish is used and it is broiled in the oven (it's available as a special on Wednesdays and Fridays: I think that the days of the week may be an Assyrian tradition). I enjoy the Chicago version and its delicate (curry-like) spicing very much. **** Here are the full titles of the cited books: Daisy Iny The Best of Baghdad Cooking (with treats from Tehran) Saturday Review Press, 1976 I am very sure that it could be downloaded from the net, but can't find the link at the moment. **** Claudia Roden The Book of Jewish Food: An Odyssey from Samarkand to New York Knopf, 1996 This is one of the great, great cookbooks, with plenty of astonishing stories (about the "lost" Jews of China, for instance) and extraordinary recipes. **** Daisy Iny has this to say about how Iraqis (and those who lived within the Iraqi cultural sphere-including Iraqi-Assyrians) ate. Of course, this was true before the brutal expulsion of the Jews and the "airlift" in the 50s (and the 60s). "Baghdad, as a world in microcosm-where Moslims, Christians and Jews lived together-was a place whose inhabitants ate much the same things, though each group followed its own traditions and prescribed ways of preparing certain dishes" **** I'll add more on Iraqi restaurants in Chicago and dishes on the other thread. RST Sat Apr 19 01:12:14 -0700 2003 611658 0 RST 9 611752 sorry to butt in --- but when I read "YaYa's" I had to respond. I loved that place! But alas it is no more. I remember a phenomenal fish dish involving chard, yogurt, pilav.... I returned a month later to find a "for rent" sign up. It is mainlanders who sometimes have trouble reading complicated characters, but those who grew up with the complicated can usually make out the simplified. If you want to post the menu I'll take a crack at it ... Sat Apr 19 22:54:32 -0700 2003 611729 0 foodfirst 2 611475 Are we not supposed to eat feijoada on Saturday? Afternoon? Wed Apr 16 07:07:34 -0700 2003 611434 0 Vital Information