112017 Sun Jan 05 10:02:31 -0800 2003 27 7 Chicago Area 0 607661 Geez. Just when I think, as a visitor, I've got Chicagoland down--with my hard earned chow knowledge of downtown, Elmwood Park, Oaklawn, Archer Ave and so forth; from left field comes a curve ball that's got me totally flummoxed. Its been decided that we're going to a show at a theater near the corner of Montrose and Beacon on Fri nite, leaving from Oak & Michigan by car courtesy of our local host who is a recent nyc transplant. Some of the group subscribe to the nyc adage that "...there are three kinds of restaurants--Italian, Italian and Italian". (Myself, having owned two Italian restaurants in a past life, I'm really fussy about Italian--so many triumphs of style over substance, and so often lack of attention to fresh ingredients.) Others of us will eat anything that doesn't eat them first. And of course our wives would like more ambience than fluorescent lights and linoleum floors. Preferred price range is entrees between $12-$25. When eating downtown our longtime favorites are La Scarola, Santorini and Blackbird--ok, Blackbird only when we're flush and on a date. We love Johhnie's in all its being-ness, Bobak's and Palermo in Oak Lawn. Any stellar suggestions--Italian, Greek, Turkish, French and my own preference--open to everything? My wife reminded me about Le Bouchon, which is sort of on the way. Its a good choice, but not so close to the theater, if memory serves. On the positive side, the steak frites and roast chicken would take care of the picky eaters' needs. (And I thought the recent Chicago FAQ sufficiently comprehensive to cover all ignorant requests such as this. So it just goes to show you...) Sun Jan 05 10:02:31 -0800 2003 0 steve drucker 1 607666 My map (Mapquest) shows Beacon running into the north end of Graceland cemetery-- is that right? It doesn't really put Le Bouchon on your way though, unless you head west, up Damen and back east on Montrose. (If you do that, jeez, you've got a serious corridor of restaurants running all the way from Chicago to Fullerton, but that seems a funny way to get there, especially given what a clogged corner North and Damen is.) Unfortunately, coming from Lake Shore and exiting at Montrose you're in that dead Sargasso Sea of a no-chow-zone between Lakeview and Uptown. But if you don't mind going a little west or north of there you have all kinds of choices, and as soon as you're past Ashland, especially, traffic should move easily enough that you wouldn't begrudge an extra half mile or two. Some thoughts: - Lincoln from Montrose to Lawrence has Tournesol, She She, Bistro Campagne, and the Italian strip that includes La Bocca della Verita, Bella Domani, Tartufo's, and (around the corner on Lawrence) the much-discussed Pizza DOC (which if you're big on the authenticity of Italian, is probably the one to choose). - A short jaunt south to Irving at Ravenswood gets you Cafe 28, which is very tasty sort of nuevo Cuban. - North on Clark is kind of bare for a while, I think (somebody correct me if I'm missing something obvious) but after Foster you hit the whole Andersonville scene, which includes my fave Turkish Cuisine, assorted middle eastern places (I don't have a particular favorite, they've all seemed sort of average to me, but maybe someone else thinks one is noticeably better than the rest) and various trendy places I've never tried. Sun Jan 05 11:00:39 -0800 2003 607661 0 Mike G 1 607667 Steve, If I remember correctly, Beacon is between Broadway and Ashland, Montrose is 4400 North, so you aren’t far from Silver Seafood, which has been reviewed extensively on the Chicago Chowhound board. Ok, there you have it, my recommendation. Who’s next. {Smile} I included a link to a Zim review, which links to other Silver Seafood reviews. Ummm, wait, Ok, one more, Atlantique for upscale seafood in a casual environment. Atlantique has also been reviewed on Chowhound, but I can only link to one post. Enjoy, Gary Silver's Seafood Restaurant 4829 N Broadway St Chicago, IL 60640 773-784-0668 Atlantique 5101 N Clark St Chicago, IL 60640 773-275-9191 Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/110897#599407 Sun Jan 05 11:04:32 -0800 2003 607661 0 G Wiv 1 607670 I knew you guys could do it! We would flat out prefer Silver's, but I'm certain the other couple would cringe and retreat into the Schaumberg section of the menu, which we would accede to as chow death in the interest of 'getting along'. Atlantique sounds great. I couldn't find the chowhound post, but with a chow recommendation and the metromix description that sounds sufficient. But most probably, it will be Tournesol or Bistro Campagne, with Atlantique as backup. BTW-does anyone know which has the better roast chicken (on the bone, none of this boneless tastesless chicken breast nonsense)? In any event, will report back. And for what its worth, Chicago not only is my favorite eating city, the Chicago chowhound community is consistently top-rate in helping me navigate. Thank you, all. Sun Jan 05 11:47:38 -0800 2003 607661 0 steve drucker 2 607673 If you're thinking Tournesol I should correct myself; I think it's just south of Montrose. You'd probably look up the address anyway, but... Sun Jan 05 12:24:08 -0800 2003 607670 0 Mike G 2 607675 Steve, I would mildly recommend against Bistro Campagne, we were there a few weeks ago and had a very uneven dining experience. If you do opt for Bistro Campagne I would stay away from the Salade Frisee, which was one of the worst salads I have ever had. I will link to my Bistro Campagne comments. Le Bouchon is also one of my favorites, but Mike's recommendation of La Bocca della Verita or Pizza DOC are right on the mark as well. Frankly, if you friends would not like Silver Seafood, I would suggest against Turkish Bakery, even though you and your wife would certainly enjoy the food. In the end, I am a little surprised that Mike did not try to direct you to Cafe Iberico for Tapas. {Smile} Enjoy, Gary Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/111962#607259 Sun Jan 05 12:43:02 -0800 2003 607670 0 G Wiv 3 607679 Gary, I have always refrained from making any comments about starred, tableclothed restaurants on this board bec of my profession. But Atlantique? Really?! (No more out of me.) Steve, Silver is not necessarily for those looking for "challenging" Chinese only. I have eaten here with pretty conservative diners and they have come out raving. Just note that standard dishes like sweet and sour pork might have (rib) bones in it. **** I am not going to touch the Trio post for the same reason. But did anyone catch leek's mention of a kola nut granita? No produce purveyor for fine dining in town carries kola nuts. And I am pretty certain that the ones ReneG reported on were ahem and wink hand-carried into the country (didn't want to say this out publicly on that thread, in case it gets anyone into trouble). Where could Grant have gotten kola nuts? Has Grant or one of his sous-s been reading this board (Hi, Chef!)? Is this the new Chicago-Nigerian chic, the new Chicago-Nigerian wave in fine dining ;)? RST Sun Jan 05 14:39:43 -0800 2003 607675 0 RST 4 607684 Richard, Atlantique is in the general vicinity of Montrose and Beacon, in keeping, ambiance and price, of the other restaurants Steve mentioned, with the obvious exception Bobak and I have never had a bad meal there. While never had a bad meal there does not sound like a ringing endorsement, when you are directing out of towners to a restaurant I think that is an important aspect. As it turns out, since Steve implied that their dining mates are not overly adventurous, Atlantique would be a good choice. I have not been to Atlantique in about a year, the last time we were there four of us ended up drinking until they turned off the lights with Jared, who is (was?) the chef after having a very enjoyable meal. I would agree that there is any number of other choices, but Atlantique, unless they have gone downhill in the last year, is a good option. Enjoy, Gary Sun Jan 05 15:08:29 -0800 2003 607679 0 G Wiv 5 607691 Gary, When Atlantique was featured on Check, Please! last year, all three diners loved it. IIRC, they all said they would go back. Although, I don't know if a ringing endorsement from some of their contestants is a good or bad thing. Cheers, Al Sun Jan 05 17:04:19 -0800 2003 607684 0 Al 5 607734 I highly recommend Atlantique. Its been at least a few months since I've been, but this thread is reminding me to make a reservation soon. You won't find the most extensive menu in town, but what's on it will be fresh, well-prepared and service will be top-notch (at least most of the time - it has been merely average at certain meals, but never bad). The atmosphere is welcoming and warm, too. Mon Jan 06 11:46:01 -0800 2003 607684 0 Schatz MacArthur 4 607695 The often-critical Harry V. has frequently mentioned Atlantique as a more than passable dining option in that neighborhood. I don't know of any elaborate posts, but here it makes his deserted island list. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/110301#595241 Sun Jan 05 17:23:58 -0800 2003 607679 0 Aaron D 4 607722 "Silver is not necessarily for those looking for "challenging" Chinese only. I have eaten here with pretty conservative diners and they have come out raving. Just note that standard dishes like sweet and sour pork might have (rib) bones in it." As a past restauranteur, one of the things I'm really sensitive about is reading the subtexts that help in understanding how to make people comfortable in the context of food. The picky guy, we grew up together since early childhood. He's a multi-national exec, has traveled the five continents, and managed to eat everywhere and outwardly smile. But what's in his heart is no secret--a great steak, any kind of burger, and a fallback to chicken salad. This is a guy who never met fast food he didn't like. nuff said? Funny thing, he was in Atlanta for a while around the time of the Olympics, and loved Jean Claude Banchet's Riviera (the best restaurant Atlanta has seen for fifteen years). That's why a bistro, and it sounds like Tournesol, seems to offer the best middle ground. If we had the dough, we would try Les Nomades, or truck on out to Le Francais in Wheeling where I understand the Riviera Chef is in residence (the closest I've gotten to Le Francais in fifteen years of trying is a worshipful cruise around the deserted parking lot as I drove by one morning, I couldn't believe my eyes that I was actually there, while on the way to see a client--sort of the equivalent of a culinary stalking, I guess). Mon Jan 06 06:54:37 -0800 2003 607679 0 Steve Drucker 5 607724 Jean Banchet who created Le Francais, left for Atlanta, and then left Atlanta and took back the keys a at Le Francais few years back. He has once again flew the coop. As far as I know, Mes. Banchet is not involved in any local place. Here's one more suggestion, although a guarded one. Not too far from Montrose and Beacon is a place called Biasetti's (Irving and Ashland). It is an old fashioned, supper club kind of place, one of those rare relish tray servers, that should tell you all you need to know. Still, the place changed hands about a year ago. That may have improved the ancient kitchen, but I just do not know. I've been wanting to go for a while as I am a big fan of time warp dining, but I have yet to actually go. Rob Mon Jan 06 09:18:14 -0800 2003 607722 0 Vital Information 6 607728 I was for the only time last summer, and it is stil warp dining, waitresses suitably calling everyone honey. Not having experienced the former, I can't compare the food, it was good though. I seem to recall that the chef/owner of NN Smokehouse is now at Biasettis? Mon Jan 06 10:19:52 -0800 2003 607724 0 annieb 7 607731 If you eat at Biasetti's, do not order anything but the meat with au gratin potatoes on the side. The pasta is dismal. The steaks and BBQ are about what you'd get at Carson's on Ridge -- and that's not a put down, I like both places and I'll throw in Myron & Phil's as a comprable old-school Chicago meat place. IMO, they ruined the ambience at B's when it was sold to some of the staff last year and they changed the dark, time warp decor -- esp. the 1970's era NFL football helmets on the wall in the bar. The Long Bar is across the street, but an even better after dinner option is the Ten Cat around the corner, south on the East side of Ashland. Mon Jan 06 11:29:16 -0800 2003 607728 0 JeffB 8 607748 And here I thought 60s was warp dining! Our food was decent, but apparently I was unaware of the former splendor. We hadn't planned on going back, really, now we won't. (We're not big steak house people). We only went because we thought Mimi was already open at the Long Room and I recalled B's from the board. Guess I should start carrying one of GWiv's electronic gadgets:-) Mon Jan 06 14:49:47 -0800 2003 607731 0 annieb 8 607752 To round off Joel's report on his horrendous experience, I'll note that the ribs (Twin Anchor's style, North Siders) are something of a sure thing if you go for smokeless pork. (And why not? Slow-braised in the oven ribs are hard to screw up as long as the sauce is ok.) Hearing about Joel's porterhouse experience is akin to watching someone slip on a patch of ice you already knew about -- you wish you had said something, but it's too late. I've had that tough grey thing. Based on one too many bad t-bones/porters, my rule of thumb is that, the iffier the steak house, the worse the porterhouse. You see, the cut has so much damn surface area that it almost is never thick enough to create a good dark crust unless you like well done or the steak is 30oz+. Never buy a T-bone or porterhouse at an iffy steakhouse. (Cheap T-Bones in Texas (or at Ronnies)always overcooked, are an exception to this rule. And they don't cost 24 bucks.) Only a place with great, thick meat and a super-hot broiler can send out a porterhouse worth the dough. In the future (for anyone still willing to try B's) I suggest the large strip, charred, medium rare(ask for it so prepared specifically). The last I had, about 2 months back, was pretty darn good for the money. However, the South Americans in the same 'hood make a better, cheaper steak. Mon Jan 06 15:55:55 -0800 2003 607731 0 JeffB 8 607757 Jeff, when did 10 cat start making food? When I used to be a regular there, say 7 or 8 years ago, you had to order delivery from somewhere else. Last time I was there, couple of years ago, (the first date with my wife!) I also noticed no menu. Mon Jan 06 16:32:40 -0800 2003 607731 0 dougk 9 607762 You know I meant to pip in on this before. Now, that the idea of going to Biasetti's has been thoroughly trashed (why can't chowhound always work this good), the need to drink in that area is probably moot too. Regardless, Steve and his big friends would probably not feel fully comfortable at 10 Cat. Great bar, just not quite what I sense they are looking for. Rob Mon Jan 06 17:30:37 -0800 2003 607757 0 Vital Information 9 607770 I said it was an "after dinner" option. But maybe one could just get a sack of Biasetti's ribs and cheese potatoes and head over to Ten Cat for the atmosphere. Mon Jan 06 18:56:01 -0800 2003 607757 0 JeffB 8 607768 Sans wives, Biasetti's sounds like a place we would readily go to--steaks, good drinks, good potatoes, waitresses that call you 'honey'. no frou-frou. no creme brulee torched on top. no ketchup squeeze bottles used for plate garniture. no waitrons wanting to be my friend. Gee, are the pies good too--that would seal the deal? hmmm. may weel keep this one in the queue. Mon Jan 06 18:24:51 -0800 2003 607731 0 steve drucker 6 607743 Rob, I just went to Biasetti's the other night, because I remembered it fondly as "time-warp" dining with pretty good steaks, and wonderful onion rings. It wasn't really my choice, but rather that of some out-of-town visitors who specifically expressed an interest in a typical old-Chicago restaurant experience. I hadn't been there in a couple of years, (well before their health-department closing and subsequent make-over.) The makeover transformed it from a 30s or 40s style place into a bad sixties decor type of restaurant. Whatever ambience they were trying for was lost on me. I ordered the signature onion rings, and the $24 porterhouse. Onion rings had to be sent back-- twice-- because they were undercooked. The third portion that made it to our table simply went uneaten since the onions were still raw underneath the breading. The steak was one of the worst I've ever had. Sinewy, gristly, almost impossible to cut, it made me embarrassed to have out-of-towners there. And nothing else at the table was that much better, except perhaps for my son's ground steak burger. Worst of all, the organ ("Featuring Irving Weinstein on Friday and Saturday nights!") is gone. Yes, this is a downhill report. joel Mon Jan 06 13:41:28 -0800 2003 607724 0 joel 2 607682 Given the fact that you will be in a car, you have many, many options. The area you will be near is rich in chowhound opportunites especially if you are willing to park twice. First, let me say, that Le Bouchon is NOT one of the places nearby, and it would quite an icky drive to get from there to your theater. Now, on to some more suggestions: - Do you like BYOB? Tango Sur is an Argentinian steak house on Southport, a few blocks south of where you will be. I give it big demerits for using a cheap gas grill, but the meat is still very rich in that S. American way. - I do not think it has been mentioned, but you will be in the vicinity of most of Chicago's Vietamese places (Argyle between Broadway and Sheridan). Most of the places are very casual and also close early. Hai Yen, mentioned by someone recently, is a bit fancier. For something really challenging see the link below. For something that offers much more in the way of "nice" dining, think about Pasteur. Pasteur started out like any old storefront Vietnamese but through the odd combination of early publicity and fire, emerged as an extremely suave restaurant. I do not necessarily think the food is above and beyond what you will find on Argyle, but the room is very pretty in a faux tropical-colonial kind of way. If you really want grungy but good and authentic food, we have always liked Thai Super Chef on Lawrence, just off of Sheriden. And again, in the opposite vein, there is a branch of the now ubiquous Fransceca's on Bryn Mawr near Broadway. Safe yet good Italian at a nice price point. OK, one more twist, many, many of the African places, like bq will be nearby. See some of the RST/John Beadle reports for names and places. Finally, consider dropping in at the Green Mill Lounge on the corner of Lawrence and Broadway after your show. A real time warp interior (an Al Capone slept here kind of place). Very cool! VI Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/111053#600431 Sun Jan 05 14:51:02 -0800 2003 607670 0 Vital Information 3 607688 >>Francesca's on Bryn Mawr...Safe yet good Italian at a nice price point.<< True, I suppose, but if you're picky anyway about your Italian...I was very underwhelmed by this place. For what it's worth, I feel like someone (Seth? Tony?) made some fairly negative remarks about BQ Afro Root Cuisine at the El Llano get together. Sun Jan 05 16:39:44 -0800 2003 607682 0 Aaron D 4 607689 Does anyone really like Pasteur? I don't mean that quite as snidely as it types. I liked the old Pasteur (pre-fire and new location, also Chicago ave. location) but that was also because they were the only Vietnamese places I had eaten at in Chicago. Even then I didn't necessarily think Pasteur was better than some of the ones we had in Kansas (I realize that may sound improbable, but there's a substantial Vietnamese population in Kansas, settled there by Catholic refugee outfits sort of like the Hmong in Minneapolis were). Anyway, now I think it's a very nice room for pretty Lincoln Park-friendly Vietnamese food, but maybe I just haven't ordered the right things (needless to say it's rare I find myself there as opposed to cheaper and more authentic alternatives, so it's not like it's getting a lot of chances with me now). Anyone feel there's something terrific at Pasteur I'm missing? Sun Jan 05 16:58:47 -0800 2003 607688 0 Mike G 5 607711 I do not dislike Pasteur in the least. Whether I feel it is the best value is a seperate question. I think the food is as good as any place, just more expensive. For instance, Pasteur serves pho as a first course soup, not a meal in a bowl. The ramp up the aromatics, it is flavorful, but it is not necessarily a better bowl than you will find at the pho shops. What you will get is, first, a much, much nicer room; second, drinks and third, a more varied and western styled menu (i.e., in courses). These things may all be important to your enjoyment of the meal. In many ways, this is what you are paying extra. Like I said, I think the room at Pasteur is remarkable. It is not simply "neat" as in not dirty. It is well decorated, spacious, evocative and glamourous. Imagine yourself the quiet American. I have no comments per se on the drinks other than they are not cheap drinks. Now the menu has some interesting things you will not necessarily find at other places. You know more fusion-y or otherwise set up to impress the jaded palate not the home sick Saigonese. Different places fit different needs. VI Sun Jan 05 20:27:52 -0800 2003 607689 0 Vital Information 2 607725 Steve, I do not know if I am late to this discussion but given your description of your dining companions, I would go with tango sur - argentinean steahouse (byo). Great empanadas as well - I prefer the chicken ones to the beef, and the spinach when they have them is good. afterwards you can go to julius meinl for coffee and dessert. Mon Jan 06 09:57:53 -0800 2003 607670 0 zim 1 608192 Never got to execute on this one as the group's theater plans changed. That said, I just got back from the annual five day January Housewares show jaunt to Chicago, where upon arrival I immediately (well, as soon as the cell phone stopped ringing) took my wife for lunch at Bobak's--she was floored, not to mention the superb jam filled butter cookies we got from Bobak's supermarket/bakery next door that were so rich that one pound lasted well past my wife's mid-trip return to Atlanta. Otherwise, went to Santorini (twice, once alone after my wife went back to Atlanta), La Scarola, many times to Tempo for breakfast. Used CEODeliveries.com to get takeout delivered from La Scarola, dialing them up on the bus back from McCormick Place. So in five days, did we break any new ground? Long story short, new only for us: we tried Cyrano's. Great food at Cyrano's: Foie gras two ways, excellent salad, well executed grilled salmon with israeli cous-cous and respectable rotisserie chicken; struck out only on the veg of the day--smarmy mushrooms with cheese (just not my taste with the chicken). A very good apple tarte with excellent vanilla caramel ice cream. Good value bottle of Cote de Rousillon at $24; many other good values on the list chosen by the owner's wife--a former wine industry pro. Probably best of all, Bobbie Rollins--a lounge lizard singer of a certain age whose restrained and pitch perfect singing of standards accompanied by a laid back pianist and bassist was a totally unexpected and delightful surprise. So overall, I would agree that if you are stuck in a hotel, Cyrano's is a good in town River North choice indeed. That said, if its only about food, I'm trucking up to Le Bouchon. Sat Jan 18 13:34:24 -0800 2003 607661 0 steve drucker