111850 Tue Nov 26 21:37:02 -0800 2002 22 7 Chicago Area 0 606400 so i take the advice of chowhound and go to lem's for some good ribs. when i walk in, i realize this is why i love chowhound. i would have never found this place, ever, and the ribs were outstanding. with meat towering almost two inches over the bone (this could be hyperbole), these were some seriously meaty ribs, penetrated with a deep smoke flavor. full slab and some cole slaw for 18 bucks is the best deal i've seen. next time: big ol bucket of rib tips. only qualm: i like my hot sauce HOT, and this was on the tamer side. two questions: first, is there a rib joint that has a thicker sauce? i know some people prefer the more vinegar based deal, but a little bit of sweet and thick doesn't hurt once in a while. second, is there any texas style que around here? some smoked brisket would also hit the spot (along with a big chunk of onion, avocado, and some crackers) it was my friend's birthday, and a life-long chicagoan suggests we go to cocoro (now called east somthing or other). first good sign, all of the clientelle is japanese. i order the usual suspects (not too much of a special offering going on) and everything is slightly off. sake is too lean, toro is a little meally, suzuki too chewy (you get the picture). ikura was great. when we left, the entire place was jam packed with japanese guests. does this place have a strong reputation in the community? i don't really know why this place is so popular... anyone have the shabu shabu here? question: i am looking to cultivate a sushi relationship somewhere in the city, but i don't know where to start. i really miss having a regular place where i don't have to order anything, it just finds its way in front of me. i am looking for something intimate so i can actually get to know the chef and get the inside scoop. any help would be greatly appreciated. the closer to public trans., the better. on a so-so note: three of my friends were in town, and their concierge recommended smith and wollensky's. this is the most thoroughly average steakhouse you will go to, although you will pay the same as anywhere else. the porterhouse was poorly trimmed, but otherwise okay. my friend approved of the rib steak. a plus: fried zuchinni as a side, and a whole lot of it. a pear and cranberry cobbler was the best part of the meal (when the dessert is the best thing at a steakhouse, one has to wonder...) lem's 5914 s. state st cocoro 668 n. wells smith and wollensky's 318 n. state Tue Nov 26 21:37:02 -0800 2002 0 david de berkeley 1 606402 I used to get dragged to Cocoro a lot when I worked nearby and I was never blown away relative to other Japanese places although it was sure a good way to get your head out of the office for an hour. There are all these places serving Japanese in Chicago that nobody seems to ever go to-- I just noticed a new one on Oak near Sur La Table. I feel like checking more of them out, although after seeing the movie "Audition" I have to admit to being a little frightened of where it all might lead. Tue Nov 26 22:28:58 -0800 2002 606400 0 Mike G 2 606428 Your comment about unknown Japanese restaurants provides a perfect segway to introduce Ginza Fish. Many of you have passed the Tokyo Hotel and Ginza Fish with great trepidation, I'm sure. Rest assured, Ginza Fish offers excellent Japanese in a time-warp, old-school atmosphere. This is one of my favorite date places. It's so relaxed and a conversation is actually possible with your dining mate. Before I know it, I've kicked back a couple of Kirin tallboys and it's midnight. They offer great o-bento (lunchboxes) with things like grilled mackeral or eel, as well as the conventional tempura or terriyaki. I've never ordered sushi there. The entire staff is so friendly. They're all Japanese and go out of their way to please. (Whatever happened to "the customer comes first" anyway?) Ginza Fish House 19 East Ontario 312/222-0600 Wed Nov 27 13:05:07 -0800 2002 606402 0 Paul Tyksins 3 606432 Thanks for the info on Ginza Fish. Count me strongly in the catagory of someone fascinated, yet too scared to try. I always put Ginza Fish, and those few other skid row Japanese places* in the same catatory of old time roadside motels. Admiring, yet unwilling, with a nagging question of who does. Now I know at least someone. VI *I say this because they all seem to pre-date the gentrification of this area. If you are new in town, you would be shocked at what the River North area looked like, say 10-15 years ago. Wed Nov 27 13:22:23 -0800 2002 606428 0 Vital Information 4 606449 I'm going to second the recommendation on Ginza Fish. I live in Tokyo now and so don't eat much sushi when I'm back in the US, but I think that this place is pretty good. That goes for the sushi as well. It also looks a lot more like an actual Japanese sushi restaurant than 95% of the places in Chicago. I ate there all the time when I lived in the city. By the way, I heard a rumor that they were going to tear down the building this place is in. Any confirmation on that? Fri Nov 29 03:01:38 -0800 2002 606432 0 Michael 5 606454 I hope not. I lived in that building in the late 90s for 7 months while between apartments. It was an SRO by that time but they kindly gave me a (still very dingy: cockroaches etc) room on the topmost floor. I was the only resident up on that floor and used to slipped out the fire escape and climb the iron stepladder up to the water tower to enjoy the bright lights of the big city. I have very fond memories of that hotel. Strangely enough, I forgot completely about Ginza sushi until it popped up on this thread. I ate there regularly when I lived in the building (again, this was 5-6 years ago) and enjoyed the meals very much. We had a discussion on the oldest Thai in the city elsewhere; surely this must be among the oldest sushi houses around. There is a large very faded sign dating from decades back advertising "fresh fish/sushi/Ginza" painted on the walls of that very water tower on top. I agree with MikeG about the need to reexamine all the downtown Japanese places: there must be, what?, 20 or so in the greater downtown area (River North/Loop/Streetervile). We assume that they are all intended for a captive clientele of dumb conventioneers on expense accounts but who knows-there might be a good one somewhere there. On Dearborn (or am I thinking of State), just south of Rush, there is a very big sushi house on the west side of the street. It's almost always packed and apparently there is an upstairs "hipster" lounge done up to look like it came straight out of Wallpaper magazine. I have always assumed that this is another one of the gaudy Rush Street entertainment joints, until a friend told me that the owner is a very serious man who tries hard to do things right. As a matter of fact, I met the owner socially not long afterwards, and he tried to tell me a bit about their sake program (and some of the sakes on his list he's prouder of). Does anyone know this place and can anyone tell me if it's any good? RST Fri Nov 29 11:17:16 -0800 2002 606449 0 RST 6 606682 Ah, Tsunami! It just came to me. Sorry, I blanked! Thu Dec 05 00:21:15 -0800 2002 606454 0 Paul Tyksins 7 606683 That must be it: although I can't really be sure either. Slightly south of Division on either State or Dearborn (most likely Dearborn), on the west side of the street. It's in a converted (19th c) town house if I am not mistaken. Is it any good? There HAVE BEEN a few reviews here, haven't there? I'll go do a search. RST Thu Dec 05 00:32:44 -0800 2002 606682 0 RST 8 606692 I hear it's excellent, but haven't been. Thu Dec 05 11:19:01 -0800 2002 606683 0 Paul Tyksins 5 606494 Not only do I go for the food, I go for the atmosphere. Having lived in Japan, Ginza feels most like a little family restaurant I frequented in Tokyo. (Ahh, for those days!!) Sure, Ginza's downmarket and fairly grungy, but that is its charm! Nobody is putting on airs! And everybody aims to please. The other place I can think of in Chicago along the same lines is Sunshine Cafe, 5449 N. Clark (dirt-cheap Japanese, BYO, owned by Japanese-Americans, closes at 9:00 p.m.). Sun Dec 01 22:07:05 -0800 2002 606449 0 Paul Tyksins 1 606404 Your description of your meal at S&W matches the same complaints that I had at their Manhattan restaurant when I lived there. In New York, S&W is considered a bit of a tourist trap. Tue Nov 26 23:06:45 -0800 2002 606400 0 YourPalWill 1 606407 Well, if you want that kind of trust relationship with a sushi chef and $190 doesn't phase you, search down for Ron Rosenbaum's post. Enjoy. Wed Nov 27 00:00:19 -0800 2002 606400 0 annieb 2 606427 I also raved about Heat a few months back and gave a link to a recent SF Examiner review that was very favorable. BTW, Heat has a multi-course business lunch which is riduculously cheap considering the menu and quality. I think Crain's lunch reviewer (Anne Spiselman) commented favorably on Heat just a few issues back. She is on my top 3 Chicago food journalist list, and she does not suffer bad food or service gladly. I have not been for lunch, but I can't imagine it being anything but wonderful. Wed Nov 27 13:04:00 -0800 2002 606407 0 JeffB 1 606415 on the ribs front you might like hecky's in evanston a thicker sweeter sauce that they are very proud of - their motto being "it's the sauce" they have a hot version (though not really all that hot - I like to doctor it a little with tapatio) but you have to ask for it, the default is mild. I also like hecky's sweet potato pies. (they're doing pies and smoked turkeys for thanksgiving, btw) Hecky's Barbecue Green Bay & Emerson Evanston (847) 492-1182 http://www.heckys.com/ Wed Nov 27 10:00:41 -0800 2002 606400 0 zim 2 606423 I rarely disagree with Zim but as to Hecky's MY motto is: "It's the Sauce . . . because it certainly ain't the ribs!" I just don't think the place has a rib tip to stand on. I love Smoke Daddy's on Division but their ribs are not heavily sauced either. Wed Nov 27 12:43:51 -0800 2002 606415 0 Paul Tyksins 3 606447 Couldn't agree with you more.I worked in Evanston for 6 years and no matter what I ordered Heckys neaver failed to disapoint. Read somewhere a few years back (Trib?) that Heckys ribs come pre-smoked from Kentucky and the sauce is made out of state in order to keep the help from stealing the recipe. Go figure. Thu Nov 28 00:13:10 -0800 2002 606423 0 JSM 2 606425 Before I discovered Lem's, Hecky's was my favorite barbeque. I grew up in Texas so I know what you mean missing a thicker, more peppery sauce, and this is my biggest complaint about bbq sauces that I find here in Chicago. They are almost universally too thin and vinegary for my taste. However, Hecky's sauce comes the closest to what I might find at Sonny Bryan's for instance, in Dallas. The good news about Lem's and Hecky's is that the bbq itself is so good, I can easily forgo the sauce. A few months ago I tried a BBQ place up on North Broadway called Hickory House, which did a very, very respectable job on both ribs and chicken, especially for what might be called "North Side BBQ." It obviously helps that the owner said he learned everything from his uncle or dad, who ran a south side BBq stand in years past. Notwithstanding my tolerance for occasional bad service when the food is worth it, the service at Hickory House drove me up the wall (and this is at a take-out only joint.) Walking in at the "right" hour, between 5:00 and 6:00p.m., I never waited less than 45 minutes for them to put my order together. It didn't matter if I called ahead, I always waited. My other dissatisfaction was that their side dishes were pretty much worthless. This place also makes a few jerk-style dishes and southern "smothered gravy" plates, (which I never tried), so I wanted to believe in their southern greens, cornbread, red beans and rice, yams, fried okra etc. My belief was always betrayed. None of them really worked like they should, they didn't travel well the 10 minutes to home, and the portions were miniscule. The entertainment factor at Hickory House is always high. The owner's wife runs a beauty salon next door, so you want napkins-- they're next door at the salon. Take-out menus?-- sorry they can't find any, so someone goes next door to rummage through a shampoo cabinet. You want to pay with a credit card?-- no problem as long as you don't mind running the charge through the salon's machine. Dr. Wang is calling to complain that his rib delivery never arrived? Delivery person screams that she couldn't find the address, and Dr. Wang yells back that he's in the Weiss emergency room, just follow an ambulance for pete's sake. I do like the meat here and should have gone back a lot more frequently since it's within easy striking distance of Lakeview, but I'm not sure if they are still in business. The last time I drove by, I didn't see the sign hanging out over the sidewalk. Does anyone know if Hickory House, at 5638 N. Bdwy, is still operating? joel Wed Nov 27 12:48:49 -0800 2002 606415 0 joel 1 606422 East is big chain in NYC (originating there or in LA?)--there are maybe 4 different locations in New York. It is considered a good izakaya-type restaurant--Japanese pub--but is not known for its sushi. I only assume that this is the same East that has taken over Cocoro because the logo on Cocoro's storefront is the same as the NYC East brood. Cocoro was known for its shabu shabu and ramen. Although the sushi was considered good, it was never a destination sushi restaurant. I haven't been there since East took over things but the menu in the window does not seem all that different from Cocoro's offerings. (East in NYC is known for its giant picture menus. Did Cocoro have the East picture menus?) If you want to establish an intimate relationship with a sushi master, I recommend Torajiro Sushi (I'm always recommending Torajiro). It's a small room with 2 or 3 tables and the sushi bar. Sit at the bar, bring your own beer (another great thing about the place), tell the master to make you something special and he'll accomodate you. He's a Chinese guy who's super friendly and his fish is fresh and cheap. He trained in Tokyo. Torajiro Sushi 432 W. Diversey Wed Nov 27 12:37:34 -0800 2002 606400 0 Paul Tyksins 2 606433 paul, what exactly is an "izakaya-type" restaurant? Wed Nov 27 13:27:50 -0800 2002 606422 0 zim 3 606493 An izakaya is primarily a drinking place that offers small dishes of food. Your typical izakaya has a range of dishes (all of which go well with liquor): french fries, fried oysters, pizza, fried rice, soups, yakitori, sushi, etc., etc. Part of the fun of an izakaya is leafing through the big picture menu and picking what it is you want to eat. (This also makes it easy on those who don't speak Japanese.) I've attached a link to a sample izakaya menu. Link: http://www.greggman.com/japan/izakaya.htm Sun Dec 01 21:53:03 -0800 2002 606433 0 Paul Tyksins 1 606434 sushi rec: Kuni's on Main street less than 2 blocks from the Main St. El or Metra stop just E. of Chicago ave. in Evanston 515 Main, I think. Sit at the Sushi bar and ask Kuni to make things for you :) He's the owner and main Itame, so usually you order from a waitress then ask for other things from Kuni-san. Wed Nov 27 13:37:49 -0800 2002 606400 0 leek 1 606443 Although I don't live in Chicago I have done my best to eat my way through the city over the past twenty years. Lem's really does have the best ribs. I personally believe that Leon's has better (and thicker)sauce but overall Lem's are among America's best ribs. Smith and Wollensky? Even the original in New York and the various outposts pale next to Peter Luger's in Brooklyn. I believe that I have been to every significant Chicago beef house including the original Morton's and Gene and Georgetti's among others but Luger's sets the standard for America. Next in line would be (for me) Sparks in New York, Del Frisco's in Orlando (yes, Orlando, and this location has NOTHING in common with the Lone Star chain operations elsewhere; the Orlando restaurant was opened with the original Dallas owner directing its setup and suppliers with close friends of his operating it separate from the Lone Star group) and Boulevard in Oklahoma City (not publicized anywhere but absolutely superb beef with an uptown ambience and sides to match). Wed Nov 27 19:40:12 -0800 2002 606400 0 Joe H. 1 606533 Yes, the ribs at Lem’s are a pretty good deal. You can certainly find cheaper but not many better. For an even better deal, cut out the coupon on page C9 of the phone book (Yellow Book 2002 not SBC Yellow Pages). When you buy a slab of ribs you get $5 off another item, meaning almost free hot links or tips. I happen to like Lem’s sauce quite a bit but realize it’s not to everyone’s taste. Joe H recommended Leon’s sauce. It’s certainly worth a visit but I really do think Leon’s has slipped a bit. They have two sauces, mild and hot, both fairly extreme. The mild is extremely sweet, almost syrupy but without a lot of complexity. The hot is hot enough to make your lips tingle but again not very complex. A good option is to go with half and half. Ah, brisket. That’s been discussed here several times without turning up any truly great versions. It seems most of the good places (mostly on the south and west sides) stick to ribs, tips, links, and maybe chicken. I include a link to a previous thread for whatever it’s worth. Maybe, just maybe, someone will tell us about an unknown gem. I have to agree with you about Smith & Wollensky. I was taken there once for a steak dinner and wasn’t overly impressed. I remain very impressed with their hamburger however (the hash is no slouch either). It’s a beautiful thing especially when very hungry at 1am. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/110886#599335 Mon Dec 02 18:40:53 -0800 2002 606400 0 Rene G