111558 Fri Oct 11 17:56:27 -0700 2002 13 7 Chicago Area 0 604240 Recently, I had dinner at a pizza place in Washington called the Two Amys. They claim to be one of four restaurants in America whose pizzas meet Italy's Denominazione di Origine Controllata standards. It was the best pizza I ever had in this country. A Napolitana Magherita -- oil, tomatoes, mozzarella and basil. What's the best Margherita pizza in Chicago? And where are the other pizza places in the USA that meet the Denominazione di Origine Controllata standard? Fri Oct 11 17:56:27 -0700 2002 0 xtopher 1 604245 Somebody has been pulling your leg, xtopher. DOC and DOCG are Italian wine standards. Saying a pizza meets those standards is like saying a bratwurst meets the German Rheinheitsgebot (a beer standard). Fri Oct 11 19:00:24 -0700 2002 604240 0 Kirk 1 604246 Xtopher, Denominazione di Origine Controllata (DOC) refers to Italian wine, not pizza, the two Amy's were pulling your leg, one on each leg. Pizza DOC, I wonder if the two Amy's helped with the name, has, IMHO, the best pizza Margherita in Chicago. Pizza DOC has a wood fired oven and uses it to great advantage. Enjoy, Gary Pizza D.O.C. 2251 W Lawrence Ave Chicago, IL 60625 773- 784-8777 Fri Oct 11 19:04:51 -0700 2002 604240 0 G Wiv 2 604249 When Pizzeria DOC opened there was something about a DOC stamp for cheese etc., and them using those ingredients; if you do a Google search for, say, "denominazione controllata cheese" you get multiple references to DOC cheese, which look legit.   Restaurants, though, seems quite a stretch. Fri Oct 11 19:57:32 -0700 2002 604246 0 Mike G 3 604250 There's been the proposal for "Italian taste police" to scour the world for restaurant fakery, but that doesn't seem to be connected to D.O.C. Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4485634,00.html Fri Oct 11 20:10:51 -0700 2002 604249 0 Luke Seemann 4 604256 Here's part of what the Reader said about Pizza DOC (is it Pizza or Pizzeria?) Hope this is a short enough bit not to set off the Chow copyright dogs. "Cesare D'Ortenzi (La Bocca della Verita) and Lucia Mazzocchetti opened Pizza D.O.C. in September. The name refers to the stamp of approval given to Italian wine, cheese, and other food products of verifiably high quality. D'Ortenzi holds everything in his establishment up to the same exacting standards." Link: http://www.chireader.com/rrr/news/2000/0225.html Sat Oct 12 10:56:53 -0700 2002 604250 0 Mike G 5 604293 In my opinion, if the Pizza is good, they can call it anything that they wish. Sun Oct 13 18:17:00 -0700 2002 604256 0 YourPalWill 1 604252 Hello While Denominazione di Origine Controllata may not be what this poster was referring to, VPN is. There is a pizza place in NYC that is allowed to display VPN. This designates this establishment as an authentic neopolitan pizza place. I have eaten there before and it is excellent. Its located on east 20th and also there are 2 other the fine places in Veritas and Grammercy Tavern just a few doors down. Fri Oct 11 22:37:51 -0700 2002 604240 0 Rob 1 604254 The Italians and French give legal appelations to all sorts of food stuffs, not just wine. DOC can indeed be applied to cheese. I believe DOCG only refers to wine. Other things, like vinegar, do have legal restrictions about how they may be labeled. Don't know about pizza, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were Italian legal specifications about how a certain type of pizza must be made in order to be sold under a certain name. The Italians, it must be admitted, are fanatical about their food. Sat Oct 12 00:14:07 -0700 2002 604240 0 Aaron D 2 604260 I did a bit of research, ok, all I did was call Isola and ask about DOC, and, according to Laurie, what DOC signifies is that the wine, cheese, meat is “authentic as to the region it says it is from.” Laurie also added, for example, if a cheese says buffalo mozzarella and it is stamped DOC you can be assured that it was actually made from buffalo milk. Laurie went on to say that DOC is similar to our (USA) version of the USDA. I asked her about pizza and DOC and she said that to the best of her knowledge, DOC does not apply to pizza and, most certainly, not to pizza made in America. I also did a web search for pizza and VPN and came up with a Forbes article which implied that VPN was nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Enjoy, Gary Link: http://www.forbes.com/2002/08/21/0821feat_print.html Sat Oct 12 13:59:26 -0700 2002 604254 0 G Wiv 3 604309 I wish I could be more specific, but sometime within the last two or three years the Napolitano pizza police (the VPN) came to Chicago to assess deep dish pizza at places like Malnati's and Uno. Predictably, they provided press blubs about such pizzas being disgusting abominations. IMO, they should have tried Gioco or even the Francescas, which have always had good, "authentic" pies. Of course, that would not have made for very good sound-bites. Mon Oct 14 14:59:33 -0700 2002 604260 0 JeffB 1 604262 "Just as producers of olive oil, balsamic vinegar and wines have done, the Neapolitan pizza-makers have established standards for ingredients and methods used for the two quintessential pizzas of the region, giving them the DOC label (Denominazione di Origine Controllata, denomination of controlled origin). Any pizza-maker anywhere in the world can offer Pizza Marinara DOC or Pizza Margherita DOC, so long as the exacting standards set by Associazione Vera Pizza Napoletana are followed." Ok, maybe I misread or perhaps I was conned by restaurant PR. But my general point (and general question) remains -- what are the restaurants in Chicago offering DOC pizza? thanks for the suggestions. Sat Oct 12 16:32:08 -0700 2002 604240 0 xtopher 1 604270 Some more random web stuff on this: "By the 1990s, Italy was producing and consuming more than 7 million pizzas a day, and across the world, the variety was seemingly endless. So, in an effort to identify and protect the original pizza, a group of pizza-makers in Naples began to petition the government for a DOC, or Denominazione di Origene Controllata." http://www.doughmakers.com/cookbook-april02.asp Sun Oct 13 02:56:36 -0700 2002 604240 0 DPZ 1 604314 The best pizza the way you would eat it in Italy is without question Pizza DOC. The oven was shipped from Italy, the owners are Italian, the pizza maker is from Italy. They have been open for more than two years now and they have been able to keep their standards very high. My favorite pizzas are the "margherita" and the "patate e rosmarino". In fact, what I always end up ordering, off the menu, is a margherita with arrugula on top (not to be confused with the arrugula pizza that they have on the menu, where they add cherry tomatoes, which are almost never good here in Chicago). Just a small remark: Pizza DOC has the most authentic "non-neapolitan" style pizza. Their pizza is what you would typically find in Rome - very thin crust. The neapolitan style pizza is typically thicker. While there, try also their crostini as antipasto, or a Carbonara or an Amatriciana pasta. Not that it hurts, but they also have a better than average wine list for a trattoria style restaurant. Nicola Mon Oct 14 15:43:10 -0700 2002 604240 0 Nicola