111240 Mon Aug 19 12:28:26 -0700 2002 40 7 Chicago Area 0 601692 Sunday before last, at Arlington Park, I was standing at the ticket window, ready to place a bet, and I glanced over to see a large, squat man in a turquoise strapped t-shirt and a flat white hat. He was eyeing his ticket, and he looked familiar, so I walked one over, circling him to get a profile. I apparently startled his reptilian sensibilities, and the guy’s feral eyes rose, suspicious and squinting, assessing my every movement, flashing a metallic glare that said either “can I help you, d*mbf*c*?” or “may I kick your a*s, sir?” I immediately realized that I was staring down the famous Johnnie’s Italian Beef Nazi, strangely out of context, his imperious demeanor immediately shriveling me to a sweaty wad of uncertainty as I queried with a weak smile, “You used to work at Johnnie’s, right?” Now, anyone who has ever walked up to the counter at Johnnies with any question at all – or anything on their lips other than a clearly articulated order – would face the wrath of the Italian Beef Nazi, who, if he was in a good mood, would just give you some order, any order, and then that’s what you’d get for lunch. Time stood still as the Butcher of Elmwood Park, the Dark Angel of Beef looked at me, a goomba python ready to strike if provoked just one iota more, and hissed, “Used to.” Conversation over. Johnnie’s won’t be the same without him. I’m going there tonight, just to see what it feels like to get a beef from a guy who doesn’t look like he might have you for dinner. Mon Aug 19 12:28:26 -0700 2002 0 David Hammond 1 601698 Dave, I noticed his absence at johnnie's too, I miss him. last time i was there i even say someone holding the door open. maybe it was his absence, but last time I went to johnnies a coupla weeks ago something was a little off, I was gonna check again before saying anything about it, but since i have - anyone else notice anything amiss at the temple of italian beef? Mon Aug 19 14:20:18 -0700 2002 601692 0 zim 2 601705 Haven't been back in a while, but have heard they may have new ownership. Sure miss da fat man in red shades. Where else in the world do you feel at home hearing, "Combo juicy sweet hot...small bag." I used to order a dog and ask him for fries just to hear the usual response,"Fries come wit dat!" The best $2 I've ever spent... Mon Aug 19 16:13:04 -0700 2002 601698 0 Fitz 3 601852 Having lunch at Johnnie’s a few minutes ago (juicy beef hot oil only), the ever-vigilant VI noticed that on my receipt printout was recorded the fact that I ordered my beef “juicy.” Why? For what reason would they be tracking the sandwich moisture preferences of clientele? They shout out the orders so it’s not like the food preparers need to refer to a screen or printout to makeup the order. Another mystery of Johnnie’s. Incidentally, there’s no charge for hot oil. Fri Aug 23 14:46:33 -0700 2002 601705 0 David Hammond 4 601853 Speaking of mysteries... why was VI reviewing your cash register receipt from Johnnie's? Most people probably don't review their own, much less their lunch partner's. Dave, I find myself laughing out loud while reading many of your posts. Fri Aug 23 14:57:48 -0700 2002 601852 0 Al 4 601862 Hey, wait a minute. This place is using sophisticated data-tracking in order to monitor their customers' preferences? Those old softies! Under that gruff exterior they're as cuddlily customer-conscious as McDonald's. Fri Aug 23 17:42:15 -0700 2002 601852 0 Harry V. 4 601864 DH: How'd you like the hot oil only option? Fri Aug 23 21:51:31 -0700 2002 601852 0 Old School 5 601867 Hey Old School, How'd I like the hot oil? Glad you asked. It's the way I'm going to order my beef in the foreseeable future. It gave the right undercurrent of heat to the already flavorful Johnnie's meat. Fri Aug 23 23:58:59 -0700 2002 601864 0 David Hammond 1 601713 I was at Johnnie's today for lunch, and I can assure you nothing is amiss. A guy I didn't recognize was doing the play calling from the register, slightly more deliberate than the famed predecessor and definitely more patient with the clientele. My dry sweet beef was a triumph--just as perfect as it's ever been. The line did seem to move a little slowly, though. Incidentally, a guy ahead of me ordered his beef with sweet, but also with "hot oil only." Interesting. Mon Aug 19 20:25:15 -0700 2002 601692 0 Old School 2 601714 When the guy ordered hot oil, did you notice what went on the sandwich? I'm wondering if "hot" related to temperature or Scoville units. Mon Aug 19 20:35:04 -0700 2002 601713 0 David Hammond 3 601736 They gave him the oil from the giardinara. Perhaps this is a guy who doesn't like the giardinara vegetables interfering with the green peppers, but what I found delightful is that neither the register guy nor the sandwich maker blinked at the request, as if it were a fairly common ordering dipsy-doodle. Tue Aug 20 11:01:34 -0700 2002 601714 0 Old School 4 601762 You know, getting just the hot giardinara oil makes a lot of sense -- last time I had a Johnnie's beef, I had the sandwich (as usual) "sweet and hot" and there was a massive wad of hot giardinara peppers on top. I actually felt that the giardinara took up about one-third of the total bun volume, thus depriving me of my fair share of the beef. Next time I'm going to get hot oil only (hey, with the Nazi gone, I may actually ask for the giardinara "on the side" -- if that works, we will know beyond doubt that the days of Johnnie's Draconian rules of etiquette are, indeed, past). Wed Aug 21 11:53:53 -0700 2002 601736 0 David Hammond 5 601763 A couple of odds and ends related to this topic: - I remember when Johnnies used to keep the giardinara on the counter across from the grill. You could just help yourself! - At Fontano Subs, I always ask for my sub with hot and mild peppers and this, on the surface, makes even less sense than hot and sweet at Johnnies, for at least at Johnnies, hot and sweet refer to different types of peppers. Still, the hot giardinara at Fontanas had different things in it than the mild giardina, requiring the need for both. - I do not know if Johnnies has always been inconsistent, but being so close to the place, I can eat there enough to know that in the last year it CAN be inconsistent. I haved sandwiches with stale bread and sausages half-and-half (raw on one side, burned on the other). When Johnnie's is on, it's on, but if you catch one of those off moments, well you might think that is the entire experience. Wed Aug 21 12:14:40 -0700 2002 601762 0 Vital Information 6 601765 Thanks for the tip about getting hot and mild peppers at Fontano's. I'd never thought about doing that before, but it makes perfect sense. Wed Aug 21 13:00:24 -0700 2002 601763 0 susanb 6 601784 In my number of years going to Johnnie's, I've only had two disappointing experiences (beyond dealing with the Reichstag guy), and both times the cause was the same. In each instance, after standing in the line, finally getting inside the door, telling the person outside behind me to keep it shut, and then moving into the ordering position along the counter, they had run low on beef in the prep trough the moment I was at bat. Beef reinforcements were brought in inside one of those oversized rubber busboy containers--and dumped into the gravy. My sandwiches were then made with "new-to-the-trough" beef, and ended up being just barely warm and, obviously, improperly aged. But, thankfully, I've never had stale bread. Fries have always been good--though this is always a luck of the draw thing, whether you get the heat lamp fries or the right-out-of-the-fryalator fries. Wed Aug 21 19:25:31 -0700 2002 601763 0 Old School 1 601739 Ah yes, Johnnies! I haven't been there since our daughter went to Concordia. Isn't that where God eats on weekends? Tue Aug 20 12:01:56 -0700 2002 601692 0 John Connell 1 601743 >>Johnnie’s won’t be the same without him.<< Thank goodness. Maybe those of us who prefer pleasantness to rudeness might feel more inclined to try this place. Tue Aug 20 12:38:05 -0700 2002 601692 0 Harry V. 2 601768 Hmm, this place has officially peaked my interest. I will be driving through this part of town next week and am excited ot try it out. What is the proper way to order items at Johnnies? Geez its almost like studying for a quiz.... thanks Wed Aug 21 13:11:22 -0700 2002 601743 0 Detroiter 3 601800 1. Keep door closed behind or in front of you. NEVER, ever hold open. Cries of "Rookie" will issue forth from kitchen. 2. Know your order. Feel free to read the menu while standing in line but once you are asked what you want - DO NOT begin to read the menu and hem and haw. This annoys them greatly. 3. Your choices are: beef (juicy or dry/sweet and/or hot) sausage (same way). Combos (same). Yes, they have other things, you don't want 'em. And don't forget the lemmonade (with or without top). Thu Aug 22 12:32:51 -0700 2002 601768 0 bryan 4 601802 I was "taught" by my father to order a beef "dipped" with hot and sweet (from The Patio, or Al's on Taylor). I've never ordered "juicy" but that's good to know the language to use, as I too would hate to be seen as a rookie at Johnnies. Does anyone else use "dipped" for a beef that is, in the end, wonderfully "juicy?" Thu Aug 22 13:12:36 -0700 2002 601800 0 Shasson 5 601803 At Al's and Mr. Beef I always order mine dipped, and this seems to produce exactly the result I want. Thu Aug 22 13:44:11 -0700 2002 601802 0 susanb 5 601804 I have never ordered a "juicy" beef, and I've never been called a "rookie" for failing to have done so. I ask for a "wet" or "dipped" beef with equal frequency. Erik M. Thu Aug 22 13:54:20 -0700 2002 601802 0 Erik M. 6 601807 Rookie is the cry when the door is left open. And wet is, of course, an ok way to order but you'll hear the 5 or so in front of you using "juicy". And in all the years I've been going, never once have I heard "dipped." This is just my experience. My preference - beef, juicy, light hot. Mmmm. Thu Aug 22 14:39:40 -0700 2002 601804 0 bryan 7 601811 well, I've got a little variation on that- I generally use the standard nomenclature, but when getting beef's for the boy (as homer simpson would say) he likes 'em "light dip" - this got no eyebrows outta whack even from the dark lord of elmwood park. Thu Aug 22 16:41:02 -0700 2002 601807 0 zim 8 601813 I've ordered "dipped top only" (I like to hold my sammich and find that a deep-dipped combo disintegrates about 1/2 way through) and lived to write about it. Those guys have the patience of Job. Thu Aug 22 17:29:03 -0700 2002 601811 0 JeffB 9 601841 Thanks to the bounty of information in this thread, if I ever venture into this dubious lair, I shall know to: hold the door open; delay giving my order; leisurely inform them of my directive for a "carne bagnato" (this is Italian food, no?); and then, presumably, show them a thing or two about pig-headed stubbornness. "Sammich"? Oh dear, Jeff. Oh, dear. Fri Aug 23 12:31:47 -0700 2002 601813 0 Harry V. 10 601847 Yea. That'll learn 'em Harry. Fri Aug 23 13:21:04 -0700 2002 601841 0 bryan 11 601848 Dis Harry V's got no class whadsoever. It's called ambiance harry. As to ordering the beef. Combo juicy sweet hot. Fri Aug 23 13:28:55 -0700 2002 601847 0 Fitz 4 601814 "Cries of "Rookie" will issue forth from kitchen." LOL Anyone who thinks places aren't much different from each other and the country's morphing into a faceless sprawly blob should read that. I gotta go to chicago. Thu Aug 22 18:23:21 -0700 2002 601800 0 Jim Leff 3 601805 Detroiter: Like you, I plan to go to head to Johnnies for the first time this weekend. The rules are helping me out, but one question: does order of them items matter, for example saying juicy-hot-beef vs. beef-hot-juicy vs. hot-beef-juicy.....? Coincidentally, I was poking through the review of Johnnies on the CitySearch site and a reviewer (who gave the place 3/10 stars), said that the "strict cashier" is now selling cars. Would this be the same person as the Nazi Hunter? Thu Aug 22 14:11:43 -0700 2002 601768 0 gilChicago 4 601806 well, now that the staff has changed I don't think it makes that much difference but generally it goes: juicy beef wit'hot or juicy beef wit'hot and sweet Thu Aug 22 14:29:39 -0700 2002 601805 0 zim 3 601808 To get technical in an obsessively, compulsively kind of way, if you'd like your "call" to comport exactly with the way the cash man relays your order to the prep man, think of the mnemonic M.P.G.: Word 1. M=moisture level; juicy or dry Word 2. P=product; beef, sausage or combo Word 3. G=garnish; sweet, hot, sweet and hot, etc. So an order might go something like, "dry sweet beef" or "juicy sausage hot." It gets a little tricky if you--like me--have additional demands, so you'll need to append the order at the front and back of the call with the special customizations, putting what the prep man needs to know first at the front and what he needs to know last at the end. For example: "well-done dry sausage sweet with hot oil only, cut in half." If you do it this way, they may ask you if you can work evenings. Thu Aug 22 15:13:52 -0700 2002 601768 0 Old School 4 601810 I thought I had it, then I looked at your examples, now I'm really confused. Thu Aug 22 16:36:48 -0700 2002 601808 0 JeffB 2 601777 Sure, yeah, I usually prefer courtesy to rudeness, too, but this militantly efficient beefmeister was a big part of the ambiance of this landmark joint. And it wasn't so much that he was rude: he was just a no-nonsense professional who did not suffer fools (e.g., people who didn't have their order and their money ready) lightly. Wed Aug 21 15:43:50 -0700 2002 601743 0 David Hammond 3 601781 Thanks Dave. "Professional" is the very last word I would have chosen for such an individual. And "fools" is among the very last words I would have chosen for people who might, even for a single moment, have something on their minds other than attending obsequiously to the caprices of an aggressive, rude counterman. Never in my life have I eaten food worthy of suffering rudeness for it. But to each his own. Wed Aug 21 17:15:58 -0700 2002 601777 0 Harry V. 4 601783 Harry the Fifth, Wow, I never thought I'd be in the position of defending Johnnie's Italian Beef Nazi. It's not "obsequiousness" -- it's cowering respect. And they're not "caprices" -- they're the calculated gestures and effortless attitudinal directives of a well-trained, magnificently efficient, respect-commanding engineer of quick-service eats. I'd say we're just about ready to be asked to take our conversation "outside" to the "Not About Food" board. Wed Aug 21 19:03:50 -0700 2002 601781 0 David Hammond 5 601785 "Directives"? Directives are given by the customer - the one being served. The one doing the paying. "Respect-commanding"? I doubt that my valet would be impressed. But you never know. Wed Aug 21 19:28:51 -0700 2002 601783 0 Harry V. 6 601789 Going to Johnnie's is about fun and simplicity. It's simple food. They serve a lot of people. The counter man is efficient. Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder. Never in a million years did I think the word "obsequiously" would be used in a conversation or discussion involving beef and sausage sandwiches over by there in Elmwood Park. I'll be right back after I get my thesaurus... Lighten Up people. It's just food. Thu Aug 22 08:36:03 -0700 2002 601785 0 tony 7 601840 Sir, Thank you very much. I do not remember requesting your advice on how to write, or think. I'll take your wisdom under advisement, all the same. Fri Aug 23 12:12:34 -0700 2002 601789 0 Harry V. 2 602220 You can order it any way you want at Johnnie's. No matter which way you order it, it will always be the best possible beef anywhere. Try to go on a warm summer night and be certain to order a "large ice without a top". None better. For an extra treat order a combo (beef and sausage)"cut in half" and share it with your dinning partner after you have finished your beef. Mon Sep 02 23:21:31 -0700 2002 601743 0 kpcdc 2 602221 You can order it any way you want at Johnnie's. No matter which way you order it, it will always be the best possible beef anywhere. Try to go on a warm summer night and be certain to order a "large ice without a top". None better. For an extra treat order a combo (beef and sausage)"cut in half" and share it with your dinning partner after you have finished your beef. Mon Sep 02 23:21:43 -0700 2002 601743 0 kpcdc