110720 Wed May 15 13:25:22 -0700 2002 14 7 Chicago Area 0 598114 parvin naghavi, the chef and co-owner of noon-o-kebab, a persian restaurant in chicago will be speaking about the culinary customs and cultural significance of the food of her native land on saturday, may 18 at the monthly meeting of Chicago Culinary Historians. the meeting will take place 10-12am at the chicago historical society at 1601 n. clark. there is discount parking available in their lot, just to the north. anyone interested in coming needs to RSVP by emailing to CHC@culinaryhistorians.org. the cost for nonmembers is $10, and there will a tasting of a persian rice dish at the end of the lecture.for more info about the CHC please check our website, www.culinaryhistorians.org Wed May 15 13:25:22 -0700 2002 0 joan 1 598116 Joan, thanks for the heads-up. I love Noon-o-kabob and have been among the many who have mentioned it here. In my experience the folks there are really pretty nice as well. Unfortunately I can't go at that time, but would have loved to. Wed May 15 13:41:18 -0700 2002 598114 0 zim 1 598192 Noon-o-kabob Enjoy Noon-o-kabob while you can. I have been going to Noon-o for a long time, in fact, long before they spent money on public relations to get crowds into the resturant. My friend who lives in Albany Park and I were sometimes the only ones in the place. Of course the owner's father who sat at one of the back tables was always there. I love the food and Noon-o was a perfect choice for an "ethnic" place to take friends and family from out of town. Why then do I say enjoy it while you can? Because I see this resturant on that same road that keeps the resturant success rate so low. I used to be treated very well at this resturant (we still are by Pharva's brother); however, after my last visit I will never go again. I took my Sister and Brother-in-law to Noon-o after a seeing Blueman Group. Granted we were a bit late...however no one said anything about the time while we were being served. The place was filled with diners. After some conversation and the meal, I noticed we were one of two tables left. I asked for some tea, which helps settle the stomache after the spicy grilled meats. I was told I could not have any tea and that I should leave because they had been at the resturant all day. The tone of conversation quickly went from lighthearted to irritated. I am a chowhound and not easily swayed. I said they could continue to clean up and I would have my tea quickly and leave. I was asked (not politely) to leave soon without the tea. While I give great latitude to many ethnic servers for not knowing our culture's manners...I'm afraid this would have been rude no matter where in the world you found yourself. My brother-in-law commented on the change in attitude from the time we walked in to the resturant. So...was this an anomaly or is this another of Chicago's resturants that neglects their founding/base clientele only to fail when the press dies down. Afterall how many people simply drop by Albany Park for a meal? Regards, Peter D. Thu May 16 15:26:16 -0700 2002 598114 0 Peter D 2 598195 That is extremely unfortunate. I have to admit that my first visit to Noon-O-Kebab, when I was greeted by the owner's father and given (gratis) an appetizer of this wonderful hot spinach/cheese dip which is not on the menu (apparently he makes it specially on rare occasions), was far more welcoming than the subsequent times, which have bordered on brusque. (The food always compensated.) But I've never experienced anything like that there. Perhaps someone needs to print a copy of this post and let them know that they're on the verge of undoing the good buzz they've gotten so far. It certainly makes me inclined to hunt up the next undiscovered gem on Kedzie rather than keep going back to the same place, excellent though it is. Thu May 16 16:43:39 -0700 2002 598192 0 Mike G 3 598196 I know this is seriously divergent from the chicago chowhound fold but, the one time I went to Noon o Kebab, I was not all that impressed: so little impressed was I that I haven't been back since, despite the extremely appealing flirtations of our server, and the almost unanimous positive feedback on this board. The kebabs were moist but bland, the bread was allright; the pickled veggies were nice, but the spinach soup/dip/concoctions was swimming with oil to such an extent that even i (whose oil-spinach ratio threshold is generally pretty high) was turned off. Maybe it was an off night, but...just my two cents. It should be noted for the record, that I have no alternative spot in mind where I like the kebabs better (kebab hunting hasn't been a high priority thus far), so my rejection should be taken with a grain of salt. Thu May 16 16:54:59 -0700 2002 598195 0 Seth Zurer 4 598203 A couple of thoughts regarding Noon-o-Kebab and bad experiences. Iranian (or Persian) kebabs are not, by their nature, highly seasoned food. They can be jazzed up with the sumac shaker tableside or with a pretty spicy green chutney. In addition, maybe after quaffing some of that too yellow pickled "torshi", something plain is in order. I certainly does not make someone more or less a chowhound to not like as much a style of food. I've gotten on my high-horse before on the subject of truly awful resturant experiences. I do not know if I seem like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth on this issue, attacking people for being overly critical and then encouraging negative comments, but I believe and have experience too often the situation where a resturant decides to "write you off". As long as we are paying for the priviledge of eating, we should be given a best attempt. One of my huge goals in life is to make every restraunter in every resturant IN THE WORLD believe that a moment's descent into awful service will be instantly spead throughout the known universe, meaning if you're an asshole, we'll all know about it. Rob Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/110070#593676 Thu May 16 17:16:40 -0700 2002 598196 0 Vital Information 5 598213 Yeah, I mean, all you really ask of a chicken kebab is that it be really fresh and really succulent, and Noon-O-Kebab is quite good at that. Thu May 16 18:29:00 -0700 2002 598203 0 Mike G 2 598210 Peter, That sounds pretty bad. I have always had the opposite experience at Noon-O, nice to the point of being too nice. Was there fairly recently on a sautrday night and service was the same as always, though i was on the early side. Thu May 16 17:56:12 -0700 2002 598192 0 zim 1 598363 For the record I like Noon O Kabob quite a bit, though I have not been there in 8 or 9 months. The first time I went was at the suggestion of a chi.eat post by Rene G in april of 99 and I was a regular for quite a while after that. N O K was also the fist place that I encountered Zatar and Sumac, which brings me to the reason for my post. I have noticed a wide range of spice proportions in Zatar, N O K's Zatar has a higher proportion of salt and sumac to thyme and sesame seed, whereas other Zatar's that I have tasted have a much higher proportion of thyme. For example I bought an exceptionally flavorful Jordanian Zatar (Reef Brand) at Pita Inn Market on Dempster that has a very high ratio of thyme to salt/sumac/sesame seed, and the thyme, though dried, is quite fresh tasting. There seem to be regional differences in Zatar and I was curious if Parvin Naghavi referenced this in her Saturday talk to the Culinary Historians? Enjoy, Gary Pita Inn Market 3922 Dempster St Skokie,IL 60076 847- 675-0025 Wed May 22 07:13:41 -0700 2002 598114 0 G Wiv 2 598376 gary, growing up I spent quite a bit of time at an iraqi friend's house. His mother made her own mix of zatar, that was considerably less thymey. I don't know if this a regional variation or a variation from cook to cook (such as the variation betwenn different indian cooks proportions in their garam masala, or thai cooks in their curry pastes). Re Sumac: Is it just me or is this a spice that is especially prone to losing pungency over time? Wed May 22 10:14:14 -0700 2002 598363 0 zim 3 598427 I ate at Kabbabish twice last week, having fried food on each visit. Once out of the fryer, they seasoned the stuff with a spice mixture--a really awesome version of essence I suppose. Anyone know more about this, or was this just a Kabbabish thing? Rob Wed May 22 17:03:47 -0700 2002 598376 0 Vital Information 3 598457 Zim wrote: --snip- "Re Sumac: Is it just me or is this a spice that is especially prone to losing pungency over time?" Zim, Thanks for the zatar info, it seems that zatar, like with so many other foods, there are not only major regional differences, but each household has their own mix. In reference to sumac losing its potency over time, I would have to say yes, though I am not sure if sumac has a shorter half-life than other spices. Rene pointed out that the ground sumac at ZouZou did not seem to have any noticeable flavor, though this may be a function of the fact that ground spice looses it potency more quickly than whole. I just sampled a bit of whole sumac that I bought 8 or 9 months ago and it is still quite full flavored, so my guess is that, unless ZouZou's ground sumac is an anomaly, grinding is the culprit. Enjoy, Gary (who is neither McGee or Parsons, and recommends taking any 'food science' observations with a grain of Fleur de Sel) Wed May 22 21:35:23 -0700 2002 598376 0 G Wiv 4 598483 gary, thanks for the info. My sumac was indeed ground (and i have no idea how long before i bought it was ground) I had never even considered buying it whole. I'll try that. Thu May 23 11:30:37 -0700 2002 598457 0 zim 2 598414 This zatar/za’atar thing isn’t so simple. . . Here’s a version of something I posted elsewhere several years ago. I, too, thought za’atar was sumac mixed with thyme (and sesame and often other ingredients). In fact this is the mix that Penzeys sells as "zatar". The situation is a little more complicated. It seems that za'atar refers to an herb as well as to the mixture containing this herb. The questions are, which herbs and which mixtures? The way I now understand it is that the za'atar herb is Syrian marjoram (Marjorana syriaca). The mix, also referred to as za'atar, should always include this herb as well as variable amounts of thyme (of the genus Thymus), sumac, sesame seeds, and summer savory. Sometimes when Syrian marjoram isn't available thyme is substituted in the za'atar mix (making it something other than za'atar according to some people). The nomenclature of the thymes and marjorams seems to be a complicated area and I'm sure there are other opinions. I'm basing most of this on Isadora Cohen's posts to rfc and Paula Wolfert's Cooking of the Eastern Mediterranean. I'm not at all sure I understand the whole story and any further clarification would be welcome. Wed May 22 15:29:01 -0700 2002 598363 0 Rene G 3 598456 Rene G wrote: --snip-- "I'm not at all sure I understand the whole story and any further clarification would be welcome." Rene, No further clarification from me, I'm the one asking the questions. (Smile) I intend to do a bit of research on the subject and, if I find out any additional information, I will post to the board. Thanks for the zatar info, very interesting. Enjoy, Gary Wed May 22 21:15:30 -0700 2002 598414 0 G Wiv