110630 Mon Apr 29 10:28:43 -0700 2002 62 7 Chicago Area 0 597419 Chowhounds usually post about good restaurants – we want others to know about our fun food experiences. But there are some real dogs out there, and I thought it might be interesting to devote a thread to posts about eating zones we really didn’t like much at all. I’ll start. Last week, it was late, my daughter needed dinner, and I was driving by JJ Fish on Harlem in Oak Park, so I stopped. I had some okay catfish there a few years ago. This time, I had the fried shrimp and fried oysters. Shrimp were small and mealy, and the oysters were the worst things I’ve eaten in a very long time: limp, funny tasting, bad. Later, after going to bed kind of queasy,I woke up just before dawn and my first thought was, "Jeez, those oysters were awful." I don’t think I can ever go to JJ Fish again. Now, you might ask: what the heck did you go to JJ Fish for in the first place? Well, because you never know. Many people probably drive by Goose Island Shrimp and figure it’s just another greasy spoon dive, when in fact it serves the best fried shrimp I’ve had since the Eisenhower Administration. So, have you been to any restaurants recently that you’ll never return to again? Yucky food? Sucky service? Go ahead. It’s a Monday. Vent your displeasure. Open fire. Mon Apr 29 10:28:43 -0700 2002 0 David Hammond 1 597433 I was similarly unimpressed with the JJ Fish downtown. My disappointmemnt with the hallowed Gene and Jude is already on record. Mediocre hot dog, uncooked greasy fries, appalling atmosphere, insulting service. The most unappealing prepared food I have ever seen offered for purchase in Chicago was the lunch buffet at Trader Vic's. Twin Anchors, celebrated in many parts for barbecued ribs, was a disappointment. Connie’s Pizza, beloved by more than a few South Sides, is a gooey mass of cheese that does nothing for me. Nacional 27 was a letdown, nowhere close to the same league as Mas. Louisiana Kitchen, lauded in some quarters, was really quite bad. Their food was muddy, leaden, sour, and way too salty. Also, four places come to mind that I cannot exactly call bad, but which I feel are woefully unworthy of their reputations: Chicago Firehouse struck me as much ado about nothing. I do not understand why people like Erwin. Krispy Kreme doughnuts leave me cold. I find them especially distasteful warm, dripping with that ooze of sugar-slime; they get better as they cool off. Bob Chinn’s Crab House treats people as if they are sub-human, and doesn’t cook nearly well enough to make up for it. Mon Apr 29 19:53:55 -0700 2002 597419 0 Harry V. 2 597436 I'm with you on the subject of Krispy Kreme -- I found them unworthy of all the attention. I mean, I'm all for people eating what they like, but with KK, I just don't get it. Incidentally, there has been a running thread on the Midwest Board regarding KK, and how much most chowhounds find their pastry to be truly bad. I include the link below. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/120617#657455 Mon Apr 29 20:16:27 -0700 2002 597433 0 David Hammond 3 597441 This thread reminds me of one of these demographic studies, where they create these "joe sixpacks" and "soccer moms", arch-types of certain tastes, mores or beliefs. I must belong to one (other) schema as I am steadfastly in favor of Gene and Judes and Krispy Kreme. Rob Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/110278#595008 Mon Apr 29 21:13:47 -0700 2002 597436 0 Vital Information 4 597446 Krispy Kreme is a mystery to me. They taste like donuts. Fresh donuts taste good. Fresh KK's taste like any other fresh donut. As for Gene and Judes, the hotdog is pretty good, and the fries are above average, but the atmosphere is priceless and its worth the wait. I also agree that Connies' pizza is an abomination. Mon Apr 29 23:08:16 -0700 2002 597441 0 Whiner 5 597589 Parky's Hot Dogs in Oak Park advertises "best fries around". I ate there once and had the worst, greasiest fries I've ever had. The hot dog was nothing memorable either, and the place wasn't clean. After moving to Oak Park and hearing that it was a great place, I was very disappointed. Of course I heard great stuff about Tasty Dog and Russell's too. I didn't find them special either. Maybe if you grow up with a certain food, the memories override the taste buds? I second the vote on KK too. Okay doughnuts, but I'm not standing in line for them. Thu May 02 13:48:32 -0700 2002 597446 0 Jim 6 597596 Parky's, like Gene and Judes, has fresh cut fries -- which, if done right, rule. Parky's fries usually seem underdone, and very greasy (probably cooked in medium-hot oil rather than very hot oil). Gene and Jude's are better. I'm with you on Tasty Dog -- a few months ago, I posted about this dump/Oak Park cause celebre, and I include the link below. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/110134#594970 Thu May 02 15:14:43 -0700 2002 597589 0 David Hammond 7 597612 I ate at Parky's a few weeks ago...baaad. I can attest that 20 years ago it was decent, as was Tasty Dog. Russell's is a dinosaur, in the '50's - '60's perhaps white Chicagoans considered this to be barbeque but now the meats and sauce are more appropriate for preschoolers or nostalgia freaks. Thu May 02 22:07:48 -0700 2002 597596 0 Davido 8 597616 Hey Davido You write, "Russell's is a dinosaur, in the '50's - '60's perhaps white Chicagoans considered this to be barbeque but now the meats and sauce are more appropriate for preschoolers or nostalgia freaks." You are 100% correct -- it's all nostalgia. Which is why I go (and have gone since my daughters were preschoolers). What's food got to do with it? Fri May 03 00:37:50 -0700 2002 597612 0 David Hammond 9 597662 Regarding the nostalgia issue, I think thats OK as long as greasy old Russell's on Thatcher(?) is still there. But say they razed it and made a Portillo-monster on that land. Would it still be worth it? Not to knock nostalgia, I stop at unreconstructed '50's drive-ins whenever I can, and usually enjoy the experience if the food is OK or better. Fri May 03 18:23:29 -0700 2002 597616 0 Davido 10 597664 You make a good point. I stop at any Maid-Rite I see that's in an old railroad car, and their food would never be called gourmet. Fri May 03 19:02:09 -0700 2002 597662 0 Jim 6 597623 I, for one, have to stick up for parky's fries. Hand cut with skin on em - one of the better fries in the area. (and i didn't grow up on em - those were rib's and bibs and I do still love those). If you ask 'em to cook em a little longer you can solve a lot of your problems. FWIW, i'm with you on tasty dog and russells Fri May 03 09:36:02 -0700 2002 597589 0 zim 6 597642 "Maybe if you grow up with a certain food, the memories override the taste buds?" Like Italian beef, maybe? I've refrained from saying anything to date, but this seems like the right thread. Italian beef is awful. Overcooked beef totally overpowered by a thin broth tasting of salt and some kind of dried Italian herb mix on bread that would be average if left dry but turns into slimy paste when dipped. Everyone I've talked to who didn't grow up in Chicago seems to agree, and my born and bred friends know not to recommend IB places to me. Fri May 03 13:07:27 -0700 2002 597589 0 annieb 7 597646 well, here's a testimonial from a non-native Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/165239#882675 Fri May 03 13:58:30 -0700 2002 597642 0 zim 8 597654 Well, there's an exception to prove every rule :) Fri May 03 16:18:48 -0700 2002 597646 0 annieb 7 597648 >>Italian beef is awful.<< Indeed. I know that many people like Italian beef sandwiches, but I have never heard anyone explain why. Lousy beef, cooked to stringy death, on bad bread, dunked into a vat of salty grease in a desperate attempt to achieve flavor. That anyone would even consider eating one of those things is, to me, one of the great mysteries. Especially if they'd already tried one, as I have (Al's No.1). Whoever had the nerve to name that monstrosity after the home of some of the world's best food was certainly deranged. Fri May 03 14:48:52 -0700 2002 597642 0 Harry V. 6 597669 I like Parky's on Roosevelt and went to grab a hot dog and fries when I worked in the area. But a friend of mine at work always asked the question, why are the Parky's Hot Dogs White and not Red? Fri May 03 22:57:01 -0700 2002 597589 0 KAD 4 597583 Check out the article on the Krispy Kreme marketing juggernaut in today's Tribune (front page, Tempo). Say what you will, but the more I read about (and eat!) this product, the more convinced I am that that this allegedly fluffly confection from pastry heaven is just hot air, a marketing manager's greasy dream, and a food article that the South holds dear (probably for traditional reasons -- it's comfort food, maybe like chitterlings) and that the North considers exotic and regional (kind of like Coor's beer used to be). I'm a little sorry that I've eaten these 210 calorie/12 grams of fat sugar wads, but my real regret is that I didn't jump on the IPO in January, 2000. Thu May 02 11:41:28 -0700 2002 597441 0 David Hammond 1 597434 Years ago, as a youth on a date, I remember going fairly early to Stefani's on Fullerton on a Friday night and trying to order something (chicken vesuvio, maybe) that took 20 minutes, the waiter told me. That's okay, I'll wait, I said. It takes 20 minutes, he told me in no uncertain terms, as in, you're screwing up my ability to turn this table over for a real customer around 7, and another around 9. I can't remember if I stuck to my guns or not, but I've lived here another decade without going to any of the restaurants they're related to. Similarly, I remember being patronized when I was at Tucci Benucch and my wife got seafood that was a bit off. It was taken off the bill, but we were given the "rubes who've never eaten anything besides fish sticks" look that clearly implied we were simply not used to eating in such a glorious establishment. I think that was the beginning of disenchantment with Lettuce's operations, at least below the Everest-Tru level. And then there was the second and last time I tried to go to the late Tuttaposto, on a Saturday, and asked if they had anything, to be greeted not with "Sorry, all booked up" but (insert stereotypically gay tone here-- sorry but it's true) "Something at Tuttaposto on a Saturday night-- a ha ha ha ha ha ha!" That time I actually did manage to summon up l'esprit de l'escalier while still at the spot, and said, "Well, I congratulate you on your success and I'll try back when you're not the hottest thing of the moment." Alas, they went straight from hot to closed, denying me another chance. Darn. Lots of places I haven't returned to because of mediocre food, but those are instantly forgotten (which means occasionally I do return-- d'oh!) It's only the ones with bad, contemptuous attitude that really tick me off enough to be remembered for years. Mon Apr 29 19:57:21 -0700 2002 597419 0 Mike G 1 597442 David, Thanks for providing an occasion to shoot fish in a barrel. I apologize in advance for the slight reformulation of the question. Places that I've been to exactly once, and don't care to revisit: Rose Angelis, Penny's, Hi Ricky, Amitabul, Ruth's Chris, Ben Pao, Blind Faith, Fireplace Inn, O'Brien's, Hudson Club, Jia's, Marche, Mod., Tavern on Rush, Heaven on Seven on Rush, Rosebud, Mashed Potato Club, Dee's, Twin Anchors, Uncle Julio's Hacienda, Shiroi Hana, Bando, Red Light, King Wah, Anatolian, and Dixie Kitchen (H.P.) Places I've been to at least once... several times, in some cases... and if they dropped off the face off the earth I, for one, would not miss them: Ranalli's, Le Bouchon, Foodlife, Heartland Cafe, Gino's, Ann Sather, Tru, Bite, Joy Yee, Wishbone, Big Bowl, Leona's, Club Lucky, and Tecalitlan. Places that I--pray to God--will never visit: Cheesecake Factory, Chipotle, Flat Top, Dick's Last Resort, and Nine. That's off the top of my head... Greater exposition will be provided, upon request. ;-) Erik M. p.s., and FWIW, When I was in school, in H.P., J&J was one of my guilty pleasures. Mon Apr 29 22:20:07 -0700 2002 597419 0 Erik M. 2 597453 Hey Eric, You mention Flat Top Grill, and I find that "restaurant" supremely stupid. It's a lot of work to eat at a place where you have to basically put your own meal together in a quasi-cafeteria type setting. Plus, if you have no real instinctive sense of what spices go well with what (and I don't, though my wife does) you end up with mud (and I have). What's the point of going to a restaurant where you have to put his much effort into dinner? Might as well stay home and cook. One possible upside: if you're young and male, you can get a ton of fresh veg and meat for a relatively low price (my daughter's boyfriend used to go there once a day and eat frighteningly large quantities of grub). Tue Apr 30 00:09:35 -0700 2002 597442 0 David Hammond 3 597461 Dave I'm with you on the flat top concept. When I go to a restaurant, I pay someone else to cook food better than I can. Tue Apr 30 10:31:30 -0700 2002 597453 0 zim 4 597473 I agree that that aspect of it is silly but their ingredients are of good quality and it's nice to be able to pick and choose combinations of meats and vegetables, because at many restaurants that's done for you too much. It's not one of my favorite restaurants by any stretch, but I don't hate it as much as other people. Tue Apr 30 13:20:11 -0700 2002 597461 0 Aaron S 5 597474 About Flat Top, you write, "I don't hate it as much as other people." Hate is too strong a word to describe my reaction to Flat Top. "Befuddlement" is more like it -- I just don't get it. However, I do think the ingredients are fresh and the price is right -- but so is cooking at home. Tue Apr 30 13:25:56 -0700 2002 597473 0 David Hammond 3 597483 David, That makes sense. However, that's not the beginning and end for me. When I was about 10yrs old, my family went to a Mongolian BBQ restaurant in Taipei. It is one of my fondest food memories. I don't remember how it tasted, I just remember it seeming *so* exotic, and *so* cool. I don't want my illusion shattered. ;) Regards, Erik M. Tue Apr 30 15:11:03 -0700 2002 597453 0 Erik M. 3 597484 One problem with Flat Top Grill is that it doesn't get the concept of stir fry. Their procedure is to have you mix all the ingredients together with the sauce before stir frying, instead of stir frying the meat, and then the vegetables, in hot oil, and then mixing in the sauce. This produces a kind of soupy, steamed/boiled concoction which isn't all that good. Tue Apr 30 15:34:47 -0700 2002 597453 0 SusanB 2 597455 I am glad to see Leona's mentioned in this thread. I cannot comprehend the general enthusiasm about that place. But what about Dixie Kitchen? I've always had great food there. What happened? Tue Apr 30 00:31:38 -0700 2002 597442 0 Aaron D 3 597456 Once upon a time, Leona's was a nice little neighborhood place that served above-average Italian food. Nothing fancy, just home-style stuff that people liked. As it grew into an mini-empire, it still tried to maintain the home-style cache -- unfortunately, the bigger the franchise grew, the more the food became generic and homogenized, and the more the "homey" spirit became lost. The price of success, I guess. Tue Apr 30 00:49:41 -0700 2002 597455 0 David Hammond 4 597641 I'm find with little plastic containers for salsa with tacos to go. But Leona's and Ann Sather's both put them on your plate--a really tacky touch that smacks of them worrying about the cost implications of an extra half-teaspoon of applesauce or something. And it's not like the food is that cheap to begin with. Yich. Fri May 03 13:00:37 -0700 2002 597456 0 annieb 3 597475 Aaron D, I'm not sure that anything happened to Dixie Kitchen. I just didn't care for it, that's all. I was there in '95 or '96. I'd just moved back from N.C. Besides what I considered to be feebly-rendered cutesy and cleaned-up versions of Southern classics, the highly affected environment put me completely off my feed. I left feeling disturbed. Bad Vibes. Note: Heaven on Seven on Rush and Wishbone also made my list. [I'll admit that I used to like Wishbone in its original incarnation.] Unfortunately, I still have to go to Wishbone every once in awhile, for the sake of domestic harmony. ;) Regards, Erik M. Tue Apr 30 14:12:08 -0700 2002 597455 0 Erik M. 4 597477 Fair enough. I grew up in the Midwest and don't know if I ever had cornbread before going to school in Dallas. Different frame of reference, I suppose. Tue Apr 30 14:30:52 -0700 2002 597475 0 Aaron D 5 597481 I'm not even a Southerner at heart. ;) Regards, Erik M. Tue Apr 30 14:58:29 -0700 2002 597477 0 Erik M. 2 597460 Like Erik I spent some time in HP and also ate J&J more than a few times. I enjoyed it, not going out of my way to get it but not near the same experience dave had with it. Knowing the type of place it is, I stick with the the items that are likely to have good turnover: fish and shrimp. Way north on howard I find J&J to be much better than the more touted fish keg. I also agree with erik on not missing Foodlife, Heartland Cafe, Gino's, Ann Sather, Big Bowl, Leona's, Club Lucky, and Tecalitlan and dixie kitchen However living in evanston I would miss joy yee's drinks, specifically the pineapple-coconut green tapioca freeze, and mango coconut black tapioca freeze. I am not a fan of chipotle but have eaten there once and found one rather odd bit of information that i found surprising given their ties to mcdonalds-they use niman ranch meat. Tue Apr 30 10:30:36 -0700 2002 597442 0 zim 3 597478 Hey, zim. I wasn't even thinking of the drinks at Joy Yee. Its one of the Pan-Asian deals that I really don't get. Penny's and Hi Ricky made my list, as well. You've ruined it for me with Chipotle. I'm gonna have to cave... *g* Actually, I'm not that surprised. If you listened to that NPR piece on laying hens, you'd think that McDonald's was single-handedly raising the standards of agribusiness. ;) Tue Apr 30 14:34:05 -0700 2002 597460 0 Erik M. 2 597470 Erik, Thanks for your concise post. I find myself agreeing with you on many counts. I would like to ask about Rose Angelis, Red Light and Le Bouchon. I haven't been to Rose Angelis but have often wanted to try it. I have been to Red Light once and Le Bouchon several times, and liked them. What was your experience with these three places? Tue Apr 30 11:48:25 -0700 2002 597442 0 Harry V. 3 597487 Hello, Harry V. Some corrections: Tru should have been on the "been once, never going back" list. The second list should have been titled "been more than once...," not "been at least once..." Feast and D'Vine should be added to the first. Earwax and Cafe Matou should be added to the second. Regarding Rose Angelis: I had an asparagus app. that tasted strangely of pencil lead. I also had a completely underwhelming seafood dish. It was a Cioppino-type thing. Mediocre seafood... no flavour, whatsoever. It means something to me, at least, that I can't even remember what my GF had. Maybe its just me, but do you ever get the feeling that what you are experiencing is NOT an off nite? You just somehow KNOW that better can not be expected? Regarding Le Bouchon: I'm feeling lazy, so refer to the link, below. I much prefer Kiki's and Mon Ami Gabi...even La Sardine. Regarding Red Light: Well, I'm still feeling lazy, so see this post of joel's... http://www.chowhound.com/midwest/boards/chicago/messages/6594.html I'm with him. In addition, environments like that put my teeth on edge. Regards, Erik M. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/110280#595053 Tue Apr 30 16:21:12 -0700 2002 597470 0 Erik M. 2 597639 Anatolia Kebab? Please tell why. Fri May 03 12:56:01 -0700 2002 597442 0 annieb 3 597776 I went with Turkish friends. Other Turkish friends have been, as well. We're in agreement on the matter. We were not terribly impressed with the food, service, or atmosphere. We feel that there are better Turkish restaurants in town. Truthfully, when we want really good Turkish food, we cook for one another. If we go out for Turkish food, we need sufficient reason to do so. When going out, we expect an occasion. Good food, atmosphere, good service, raki, cigarettes, tea, socializing, more food, and so on. If I lived nearby it would probably be considered for takeout. Erik M. Tue May 07 15:16:10 -0700 2002 597639 0 Erik M. 4 597900 What are the better Turkish restaurants in town? Fri May 10 13:54:09 -0700 2002 597776 0 annieb 1 597482 Eli's the Place for Steak. Went there at the age of 21 with my girlfriend and her father. Made the unforgiveable sin of not wearing a jacket! Staff embarrassed me with their contempuous attitude, did a great job made me feel absolutely terrible and unwelcome being there. Worst dining experience of my life because of their condescending snobby attitudes. I remember the food being just OK, nothing that lived up to the rep, and the place being an obvious Chicago-money-older-generation- insider's stuffy kind of place. To this day I'll NEVER go there, and will applaude their eventual demise when they finally succomb. And another thing, their stupid cheesecake is a cloying, dry, over rated touristy joke. Tue Apr 30 15:11:02 -0700 2002 597419 0 Mr.Natural 1 597486 I will never return to Gene and Georgetti's. Mediocre steaks and soggy pasta, a multi-hour wait for a lousy table and incredibly arrogant and inattentive service certainly eradicated any fond nostalgic feelings the place might have otherwise engendered. I had the distinct impression that the staff would prefer the patrons wear nametags stating occupation, salary and famous dates or friends to help prioritize who would get the red carpet treatment and who would get their sneering disdain. Tue Apr 30 16:15:56 -0700 2002 597419 0 Schatz MacArthur 2 597500 I agree with that. It's total bull to be led past a half-empty first floor on a Tuesday night to the second floor, just to maintain the pretense that the place is for movers and shakers. You want to play at being exclusive, fine, I'll exclude myself permanently. (Or at least try to talk people out of dragging me there.) Tue Apr 30 21:22:31 -0700 2002 597486 0 Mike G 1 597490 What is all the rage about Shaw's Crab House? Other than the fresh oysters (which can be had at the adjacent "crab shack" without the wait), the food is average and grotesquely overpriced, the service passable, the wait ridiculous (1.5 hours with reservations! please!). Definitely in the once and never again category. Oh yeah, and it was one of two restaurants in Chicago that have given me food poisoning. Also once and never again: Frontera Grill - the food was much better than Shaw's but the service much worse, and while the duck tacos were great, they weren't good enough to justify the 2 hour wait and bad treatment. Does anyone not agree with the Leona's pick? Twin Anchors, Andies, Hi Ricky (although I had a great fried ice cream dessert there - I might go back for that), La Boca della Verita, Benedicts/Benz Bar, Stefan's (or is it Stephani's?) on Fullerton Tue Apr 30 17:23:08 -0700 2002 597419 0 yoyome 2 597499 Somehow Shaw's got a rep as THE business lunch place circa 1990. God knows why, except maybe that it wasn't distinctive enough at anything to offend anyone. That said, I can't imagine what you could have against La Bocca della Verita, which is a perfectly cheerful neighborhood Italian joint. Though if it's service related, I have to admit that both times I've been to its relation Pizzeria D.O.C. the service was pretty bad, but the food just convinced me to give them another try. Someday. Tue Apr 30 21:19:51 -0700 2002 597490 0 Mike G 1 597497 This is a story about the worst meal I ever ate in Chicago. I have tried to put the memory out my mind, so some details may be fuzzy, but I will try my best. The time was a few days after we started our bombing campaign against Afghanistan. A historian friend was in town for a conference, and since his college town is considerably less diverse than Chicago, he wanted to try some Afghani food, or when we couldn't find that, some Tajiki food, or when we couldn't find that, some Uzbeki food. On Metromix (okay, okay, we hadn't found chowhound at that point), we came across a listing for "Uzbekistan" in Lincolnwood. The trib review gave it two forks, and sited it in a strip mall-- we figured this would be perfect. What's more authentic than a suburban strip mall? I should mention that our visitor is a somewhat picky eater, on an academic's budget, and also a vegetarian. We all figured that any Central Asian Muslim cuisine would feature at least one vegetarian dish. We also assumed from the prices on metromix that this would be some cheap eats. I should also mention that we were all very very hungry. So we drove out on Touhy, parked in the packed lot, and saw the place was hopping-- very good signs. The place was called Uzbekistan, but it was all Russian. All the people in there were Russian, they had Russian decorations, the menu featured Russian dishes, and there was a man with a synthesizer singing Russian pop songs in the corner. Not that there's anything wrong with that. The menu was pretty sparse. We each ordered from the "Specialties" section, I ordered the "tabaka" which the waitress explained was garlic chicken. This turned out to be a meatless small bird (maybe a pigeon? it was all skin and bone, no way chicken), flayed down the middle, flattened and fried on both sides. It was served with 1/2 cup of oil and about 82 cloves of garlic. Because it was all oil, skin, bone, and garlic, there was nothing to actually eat. I ordered some extra bread, which was actually pretty good, and tried to fill up on that. Jim’s entree was some sort of meat bake. It came in a tiny little clay pot, and tasted like a bland stew. Since it was about a cup of food, he ordered some extra bread too. The vegetarian ordered the "Vegetable Special" which was the most expensive entree on the menu and seemed especially promising from the description. The waitress assured us that it was very good. What he got was a giant plate of plain rice, with some ordinary vegetables (cauliflower, carrots, broccoli) steamed in foil, served in foil. No sauce, no discernable seasoning. For twelve dollars. The food was just baffling. We wondered later if maybe we ordered the wrong the thing—it looked like all the Russians were ordering soups. Maybe soups are the way to go. I don’t know. We have speculated hours on what went wrong. We got the bill, and with all the extra sides of bread, our bill with tip (with no alcohol or desserts) came to over seventy dollars. So we each ponied up twenty something bucks and walked out still starving, cranky, and bewildered. The next day we took our historian to Freddy’s in Cicero (careful readers will probably start wondering about my obsession with Freddy’s), where he ordered 5 giant slices of cheese pizza, and ate four of them. And all was right with the world again. Tue Apr 30 20:37:14 -0700 2002 597419 0 Manning 2 597498 Oh I wish we could edit posts! I really wish I hadn't ended my previous post that way. Obviously all was not right with the world again, and still isn't. Even Freddy's pizza in cicero, good as it is, can't make war all right. Tue Apr 30 21:05:27 -0700 2002 597497 0 Manning 2 597503 Well, I guess the good news for you, is that I heard on the *other board* chi.eats, that Uzbek closed. I had always wanted to try, now I guess I'm lucky! As for Afghan, there is one place in town, Kabul House, in Skokie, see link below. Once upon a time they were a combo pizza joint-kabob house in Evanston, but for about a year, have been in nicer digs in Skokie. They still sell canoli, however. I am a big fan of this place (and a big fan of Afghan food in general). Nothing too exotic or far fetched. Very hammish! Rob Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/109931#592899 Tue Apr 30 21:54:34 -0700 2002 597497 0 Vital Information 3 597516 Just noticed that this week. All boarded up...but Manning made me glad too that I never managed to find the time to stop in... Wed May 01 10:17:56 -0700 2002 597503 0 AndreaOK 1 597502 I wanted to keep up with my subject fetish heading, but I just could not fit in all the places I wanted to defend in the heading. So, I'll fire back: Wishbone: For a while, there was no place that I ate at more often (current occupant of that spot would be la quebrada). Having eaten there many times, I know there can be occasional bad meals. I have also found that the branch that has Joel cooking is always better. Still, I could go on and on and on about Wishbone, the cole slaw the corn muffins, the fried chicken, the cafeteria, the tres leches cake, the garlic vinargrette, the bacon! I actually believe Wishbone has gotten BETTER over time. Twin Anchors - So it's not Lems. Lems is not Twin Anchors. Twin Anchors reminds me nothing if not of that SNL super fans. The first thing that always comes to my mind when I think of Twin Anchors is this time when these three, er Chicago-sized black hawk jerseyed guys were stuffed into one of the semi-circular boothes. Arrayed in front of them was, what, the entire Twin Anchors menu, ribs, and chicken and onion rings, black bread, wings, fries and OLD STYLE! My food fantasy to be squished in between, eating with them, using lots of dese and doses and complaining about the da way da mare's screwing us on our new contract. Is anything worth such waits and such parking hassles, I do not know, but Twin Anchors speaks of Chicago to me. Shaws - Last week on Check Please it was dissed, now on chowhound. Before then, I never knew of anyone who disliked this place. When I worked for the Big 5, and they gave us the company credit card, Shaws was always the first place we thought of. Yes, it is costly. Fresh seafood is. Yet where else can you get this kind of stuff, the lake pearch, the oysters and especially the king salmon. I love the crab meat cobb, the baltimore style room and even the wines by the glass. If you sweet talk them, you'll get some nice cookies with your coffee. I concede that the Deefield location (now closed) never compared. Bob Chins - Well, this place is not nearly in the same league as Shaws or Wishbone, but I've had plenty of fun times there. Maybe I'm just super partial to rolls oozing in garlic butter. If you go with a group, and the idea is to make an evening out of it, with mai tais and all, it's ok. I guess if you were looking for an intimate dinner, well... Flat Top Grill - I save the best for last. OK, my kids love it more than me. I asked Sophia and Hannah to enumerate for all the chowhounds why Flat Top is worth while. Here's some of the reasons: - the waiters are nice - you can play with the chopsticks - you can learn your chinese horiscope - if you do not like what you made, you can try again - it's fun to eat something beside ceral in bowls - plenty of sauces to try - you get your food quickly - all you can eat rice That said, while no one can like it as much as they do, this is their Charlie Trotters, I have no problems myself with the place. If you have ever watched Emeril say, cooking's not rocket science, you can relate at Flat Top. What I mean is, this aint real cooking. You're like Emeril where all your mis is en place, all the sauces are already done, and like Hannah says, if you screw up,you just call for a re-take. At Flat Top, you are just the conducter throwing it together exactly the way you want it after someone else has done all the hard work. For what it's worth. I cook the meat seperate from the veg, I use an ungodly amount of the curry powder and fresh garlic in lieu of stir fry sauces, and I like it best on the salad. Rob Tue Apr 30 21:47:05 -0700 2002 597419 0 Vital Information 2 597504 I'm with you on Shaw's -- I was surprised to see negative comments, but then again, that was the point of this thread. About Flat Top, you make some excellent points. I forgot all about the chopsticks -- which are indeed great to play with -- and the all-you-can-eat rice. (Seriously, though, my kids love Flat Top, too -- then again,they used to like Chuck E. Cheese as well). Tue Apr 30 22:21:50 -0700 2002 597502 0 David Hammond 2 597517 I third your Shaw's opinion. I've only had dinner in the dining room twice (I've eaten in the lounge a few times too) and the food is always great. Being a New Englander it was tough for me to move out here and discover that "fish and chips" frequently meant "perch". Before I found my way around Chicago, Shaw's was like a beacon - my husband worked for Legal Seafood for a number of years in Boston and was close to accepting a job at Shaw's when we moved here. That said - one time we had outstanding service there - excellent waiter, attentive and knowledgeable sommelier, friendly host/staff etc. But another time it was just so-so (not awful, just not up to what our expectations were after the first trip). We had a similar experience at Topolobampo. One time was phenomenal and the other was when I sat there staring at the server calculating how much his tip was going down the more he kept talking (he was a snotty know-it-all who wouldn't shut up or go away and came just this close to insulting us over our choice of wine, among other things). Food was great both times. And Trio - don't get me started. I'm not paying close to $200 for dinner (which I only do once a year - this was 3.5 years ago) to be told, when trying to choose between two wines and asking to be told something about them (full bodied, fruity, etc.), "Oh, they're both good!". I don't like sitting in the middle of the room (a room of 10 tables or so - it's not like they could miss us) for 15 minutes waiting to be acknowledged or even given water or a menu. And stuffy, stuffy, stuffy. To be fair the food was truly outstanding but I'll never go back or recommend it. Honestly? The most consistently outstanding service I've ever had has been at Jack's (Halstead & Belmont). We'd go more often but their menu doesn't change enough and what they offer is not overly exciting - we really just go because we have never had bad service. And I haven't been there for over a year at this point so...take that for what it's worth. Wed May 01 11:09:08 -0700 2002 597502 0 AndreaOK 2 597528 Agree about Shaw's, excellent food, good service, good room. I do recall that the Check, Please reviewer who disliked Shaw's described himself as a Red Lobster fan, and was disappointed by Shaw's popcorn shrimp. Enough said? However, I can't stand Wishbone - not for dinner, anyway. I love sweet potatoes and not even I can stand their cotton-candy version of the orange spuds. The rest of their food similarly struck me as concept not execution, as if they learned about Southern cooking from two visits to Dixie Kitchen (itself good but not great) but decided to Disney it up a bit. Additionally, service at the west Loop Wishbone was the most airheaded I've encountered. A waitress spilled salad dressing all over my pants - and laughed! At how dumb she was, I guess. Still waiting for the apology. I still might try Wishbone for breakfast one of these days. Everyone seems to rave about their breakfasts. Wed May 01 14:00:01 -0700 2002 597502 0 Harry V. 3 597578 I just recently went back to Shaws after a long hiatus and had one of the best fish meals I've had in a long long time. I can't wait to return. Thu May 02 11:01:04 -0700 2002 597528 0 JoanB 3 597635 I would be happy if I'd had the occasional good meal at Wishbone! The food is identical at all locations, and it's all mediocre, you're right about more concept than execution. Having grown up in the south, it pains me to see people rave over this. At one time I liked their spinach side (I still think the three veg plate is the best way to go when others insist we eat there)was good, but it now comes so overpowered with lemon (this from someone who eats raw lemons) that I have changed my opinion. Don't bother with the breakfast, it's the same. You read about something on the menu and it sounds good (corn pancakes with sweet red pepper relish) and then when it comes you realize that it's either poorly or wrongly seasoned. I also had one of the most infuriating experiences ever there that included incompetent management. We were seated in the back at the Wood St. location and there was a party of four adults and one toddler child. The toddler child roamed all over the room (by the way we were completely across the room from them, not at the next table or anything)grabbing things, etc. When the parents finally put the child in a high chair, she proceeded to scream for fifteen minutes. I am the product of a large family and believe me I am not normally bothered by crying babies, this was not crying the child was screaming and screeching. The mother kept trying to give her a bottle of water. When the food finally came (they didn't order anything for the child) and they gave the child some mashed potatoes you could tell by looking that the child was seriously hungry. The parents didn't seem like they wanted to really feed her, but she was insistent. By this time we had finished our food (which we bolted) and were leaving. On our way out, we informed the management that we not enjoyed our meal because of the disturbance, that we had mentioned it to our waiter who had not done anything with it. The manager said there was really nothing they could do. NOT. They can refuse service to anyone. I happily enjoy children in restaurants, including high-spirited ones. It was the parents who should have been asked to leave. Fri May 03 12:13:12 -0700 2002 597528 0 annieb 2 597604 I'm pretty easygoing, but I will never NEVER EVER go back to Twin Anchors after the way they treated several friends and me. We ordered drinks, we ordered food, and then we ordered more drinks. We were ready to drink and eat all night, and I was geared up to do my usual 25% tip on drinks if we held the table longer than a usual seating. . and THEN the owner pointed at me and accused me of lying to her when I said we would eat and not just drink (every person at the table had ordered at least one entree or appetizer, and we were about to order more) and insisted that we leave immediately. I told her that we, in fact, had all eaten, and that we were ready to order more, and she said again, stop lying to me. I don't know if she confused us with someone else or what, but I'm not going back. The food there is OK, but it ain't that great, and certainly not enough to endure THAT. Thu May 02 18:39:04 -0700 2002 597502 0 Carl 3 597696 I have never gotten Twin Anchors. Yea it is a cool old setting and all, but the food is pathetic. Boiled ribs, canned sauce, frozen fries. Last I checked, a slab was $22. Sure, have an Old Pile, check out the scene, then eat elsewhere. Sun May 05 19:53:55 -0700 2002 597604 0 Doublejax 1 597505 The worst meal I *ever* had in Chicago was last year at a Mexican place on Clark North of Belmont. On the East side of the Street. There's an outdoor patio. They have 2 locations within a couple of blocks of each other, both on Clark. I can't remember the name, but as soon as I do, I'll post it. Tue Apr 30 22:37:20 -0700 2002 597419 0 Aubergine 2 597506 El Jardin, once a favorite that went seriously downhill but still packs 'em in. Tue Apr 30 22:45:53 -0700 2002 597505 0 Mike G 3 597608 That's it! El Jardin! It was the *worst* I've ever had in this city. All three of us had different meals and they were all truly AWFUL. Never go!!!!! Thu May 02 19:51:52 -0700 2002 597506 0 Aubergine 4 597638 I once got food poisoning there so badly I couldn't leave the house for four days. Also at Moti Mahal on Belmont, where the floors were so slick that it seemed like someone had mopped them with oil. Fri May 03 12:52:44 -0700 2002 597608 0 annieb 5 597650 The concept of El Jardin is the incredibly potent margaritas. I have eaten there several times after Cub games in the past and never thought it was bad, but I went once and didn't have a margarita and it was awful. Moral- one or two ritas before a meal is critical in your enjoyment of the food. Fri May 03 15:00:55 -0700 2002 597638 0 springer 1 597556 It's quite hard for me NOT to return to a place because of the food; I've eaten more crap in more countries than I can remember, and I'm always willing to give some place a second chance. I've gone back to places I've seen roaches in, I've returned to places that gave me food poisoning, and I've ordered food knowing it was a mistake. However, there are a few, but not necessarily because of the food.... Due to Hyde Park's lack of late night offerings and my regular need for late night venues, I did return to Caffe Florian a few weeks after a nasty morning of Florian-induced heaving; that was a mistake. It happened again; I'm stubborn and lazy, not stupid. I once got two tacos at Chipotle; these were nasty, with chunks of fried pork (carnitas?) sitting in a steam dish for far too long. The atmosphere of the place was like a hospital. I was looking at the food while ordering, saying to myself, "don't do it, just go somewhere else....," but I was too damn lazy. I'd rather get tacos from the half-drunk guy at the Maxwell St. market who looks like he hasn't washed in 3 weeks and who has no other customers (I thought I'd be democratic and try as many vendors as possible....). Chipotle does a disservice to its lovely namesake pepper. Leona's I tried once and won't try again. Not because the food was bad but rather due to its thoroughly unexceptional quality. I just can't pay money for "Italian" food that's so uninspiring. Italian flavors shouldn't seem like they come from a jar. And I've tried many late night eating/studying places, usually diners of some sort, and Hollywood (grill?) on Ashland at North, is forever off of my itinerary, mostly b.c. the owner was a complete asshole to my girlfriend the one time she went there alone. Lalo's in Little Village (is the name right?) was far too expensive for food that is much better elsewhere. I don't understand how I heard this was so good. And I've been to a few taco joints I can't recall but which have left me thinking I might need to develop a better memory or start taking notes...... those, alas, I may well return to. In defense of Frontera: I've had decent waiters when I've sat in the dining room, perhaps a bit goofy but friendly and attentive (even appropriately missing when my girlfriend and I were in a bit of a tiff). I've actually eaten at the bar several times, so I didn't have a problem with the wait; I liked the bar a lot and the bartenders were perfectly attentive, helpful, and nice. If you don't mind eating at the bar, I'd give it a try; I guess if I wanted a table, the wait might be prohibitive. Wed May 01 22:02:58 -0700 2002 597419 0 el taco 2 597643 I ate at Frontera once and found paying $18 for a small piece of halibut in a pool of decent but not overwhelming yellow mole with two asparagus tips ridiculous. And I got sick from it. Never again. This guy is so overexposed it makes you wish he were a piece of film and his image would just disappear. Fri May 03 13:12:17 -0700 2002 597556 0 annieb