110188 Fri Dec 21 13:02:21 -0800 2001 18 7 Chicago Area 0 594462 The name of a place, “New York Pizza,” not the style – although the New York style of pie is admirably represented here. First of all I must thank Dunlop for calling Chowhound’s attention to the existence of this place (link below), on the north side of Lawrence Avenue just west of Damen. I believe it is in the former location of something known as Bubba’s Pizza. Per Dunlop’s mention my companion and I stopped by to try it last night. New York Pizza is terrific. It is miles better than Gigio’s, not to mention countless nondescript by-the-slice joints dotting this city. (Although I must admit I’ve had only a single slice at Gigio’s, not a whole fresh-baked pie. Gigio’s is, frankly, a scary place with surly service, and I’m delighted to have found a superior alternative.) I was only in New York once several years ago for a too-short week, but I remember the style of pizza there with fondness (although not necessarily with preference to my equally beloved Chicago style). New York Pizza’s pizza might be a hair thinner than I remember from Ray’s and John’s, but is otherwise a more-than-respectable facsimile. Their pies are cut into classic, and huge, wedge slices, not the Chicago-style criss-cross (each cut has its virtues to my mind). The crust is thin but not crisp, quite buttery, pliable and (of course) foldable. It has no shortage of shortening or salt, and is quite delicious. All the usual toppings are available. I had one slice of pepperoni and one of sausage, plus an unconscionably large bite of my companion’s cheese slice. The cheese is quite fine, not bland at all as so many underseasoned pizzas are. I imagine some garlic salt gets thrown on before baking, but I can deal with that – the result works. The pepperoni was excellent, although I could have done with a little less authenticity in the guise of the copious reddish pepperoni grease pooling on top of the slice. The pepperonis were placed atop the pie, the way I like it, and thus got properly cooked and ever-so-slightly crispy, and tasted great. (Why do some pizza places put the toppings under the cheese, thus denying them a chance to get cooked?) The sausage tasted OK, but was not quite as impressive. Sausage at NYP comes in the form of small identically-sized and shaped gray little balls that are extremely reminiscent of what rabbits leave behind after a hearty meal (which my companion remarked BEFORE I took a bite – thanks again babe!) I will grant that Gigio’s does have much better sausage than NYP. Gigio’s is the classic Chicago Italian sausage, well seasoned including fennel seeds, etc. The pies were not overcooked; some might call them undercooked. In every slice we had, the cheese was still yellow, with no browned spots, and the crust was mostly whitish-yellow-golden with some browned spots. Possibly this approach is taken so that slices, which can be made to order, can be reheated without being overcooked. As mentioned, slices at NYP can be made to order. They bake up cheese slices, then will put any other toppings you want onto them and zip the slice back into the oven for a minute, a system that seems to work fine. The only thing on the menu other than pizza are three different types of cheesecake. The place has some style and attitude, in a good way. For one thing, they sell whole pies of only one size – large – and do they mean LARGE: 20 inches. The pizza is thin enough that 20 inches of it isn’t too mind or stomach-boggling, but parties of one or two might be better off ordering slices. They also have the expected NYC-themed humorous names for specialty pies – the Martin Scorsese, the Miles Davis, etc. I laughed at the warning on the John Gotti pizza: “MUST BE 18 OR OLDER TO ORDER.” The place is extremely small, the customer area is about the size of three telephone booths. Obviously they expect most of their business to be takeout/delivery, but there is a tiny bench in the window with three tiny stools if you want to eat there. If you’re not friends with the people you sit down with, you will be by the time you get up – that’s how close together the stools are. There’s also a glass-door refrigerator with cans of soda pop. There is no place even to wash your hands, which is something you will want to do if you have a slice or two on site. The place was impressively spotless. Customers are able to see into the prep area and the ovens, and everything looks clean as a whistle. Quality control is notable. I noticed in the prep area that the cheese was weighed on a scale before being spread over the pie, presumably to guarantee that every pie gets the correct amount and balance of ingredients. Bravi. The owners were friendly, in an agreeable but not-overly-effusive NYC way, and obviously proud of their product. They’re open until midnight every night, 1:00 am on Friday and Saturday nights. After writing this long review I might as well tell you where I’m coming from, pizzawise. I love all types of pizza: thin-thin, thick-thin, pan, deep-dish and stuffed; Chicago, New York, New Haven, California, Naples, you name it, I’ll try it and probably like it. Of course I am often disappointed by execution, but I like every known style of pizza. My favorite thin in Chicago has been Pat’s, with its crisp but flaky, wafer-thin crust and zesty seasonings. I enjoyed the pizza at Piece but found it a little bland, and also quite variable in quality from one visit to the next. Home Run Inn makes a nice substantial thin-crust pizza with excellent sausage, but the crust was a mite too doughy for my taste and the seasonings were a little mild. Vito and Nick’s was superb in every way (Rene G’s description was right-on), except that it was blandly seasoned. If the crust were a little saltier, the sauce a little zippier, or if fresh garlic were available as a topping, then Vito and Nick’s might take the thin-crust palm. But no, alas. Therefore, my two choices for thin crust pizza in Chicago are Pat’s and now New York Pizza. Aficionados of the New York style will be likely to put the latter near the tops of their lists, too, I think. Give it a try; it is obviously a shoestring operation at this point and might disappear in a month or two. Now I am going to have to tell you that I have already misplaced the menu for this place and I cannot give you its phone number or exact address. Unfortunately the place seems to be so new that I cannot find it on any of the Internet directories. Perhaps some helpful soul can chime in with this information? Harry V. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/110183#594436 Fri Dec 21 13:02:21 -0800 2001 0 Harry V. 1 594471 Wow! Fri Dec 21 15:49:49 -0800 2001 594462 0 Vital Information 1 594486 I second Harry V's vote for New York Pizza. They are one door west of Damen on Lawrence--north side of the street. They only had one slice of cheese baked up when my husband and I arrived, so we ordered a pie to go (neither of us being pepperoni fans, there was a whole pie of that available for slices). The crust is a little too thin, but it does get some bubbles in it, and most importantly, it is bread, not crackers, or bisquick. Not too much cheese, not too close to the edge, not too much sauce. Sam, the owner, says they're adding heroes (he at first called them grinders, but we agreed that that is strictly a menu term--in Brooklyn they're heroes and in Bronx and beyond they're wedges) and calzone (alas, of the baked variety) next week. They are also starting delivery, and he graciously agreed to extend the delivery area to my house (which happens to be one block west of oh so many delivery areas). Several months ago while driving by my husband drew my attention to a sign atop the building that houses NYP and the Mexican restaurant on the corner of Lawrence/Damen: Building for Sale; Pizza for lease. We got a chuckle out of it, but were very glad to see that the lease went to such good pizza mongers. Sun Dec 23 00:06:56 -0800 2001 594462 0 annieb 2 594489 I guess it was Harry's review!! We had to head to uptown yesterday and after a long debate of pizza vs. pho, we had pizza (settled via toin coss). I'm no expert on New York pizza per se, but in my limited experience, I did not think the pizza was really newyorky, too thin crust and not that sweet kind of sauce I recall. This is not, however, to say, the pizza was not very good. Amongst the family, we sampled sausage, cheese and pepperoni. My favorite was the pepperoni, which added the extra touch of grease that almost said new york. As an aside, my rememberance of New York sausage is not the rabbit poop variety (most common in frozen pizzas), but a thin sliced variety, almost like a brown pepperorni. The critical thing, I believe, that made the slices, was the fact that they did not keep the pies warming under a heat lamp. Instead, they warmed them to order. This, to me, is the critical step that makes a new york slice. And, does anyone know what the surprise, in the 18 year or older only, gotti surprise is? VI (anxious to hear seth's verdict) Sun Dec 23 16:28:31 -0800 2001 594486 0 Vital Information 3 594532 I checked out NY Pizza last night: I agree with VI's verdict. It's not really that good. The crust is too thin, and not tough enough especially around the edges. I like a crust experience closer to a tough sourdough bread than a oven warmed foccaccia. They are, however, to be commended for the freshness of the ingredients and their exclusionary focus on pizza. Fri Dec 28 11:34:22 -0800 2001 594489 0 Seth Zurer 4 594534 I've been thinking about going back to NYP, and I think it will still be my pizza of choice, I think it's far better than any in the area and they will deliver to me. I think the real problem is one of volume...Bread dough is alive, and while you can refrigerate it to slow it down, it really doesn't improve it. At the pizza parlor of my youth in NY, they were constantly bringing out drawers of portioned dough from the kitchen--12 pies to a drawer, and they had six drawers. By the time a drawer was rotated to the top of the pile, it was at the perfect stage for pizza, and the heat of the pizza oven would cause these amazing blisters, the crust would be thick and puffy while the inside was still thin but chewy. Ah well. But, like I said, NYP will be my regular. Maybe if they had more business.... Fri Dec 28 12:50:28 -0800 2001 594532 0 annieb 5 594590 yes yes yes! that's it exactly! I also get the impression that these crusts are rolled out instead of thrown, collapsing all those potential bubbles and air pockets. The crust should be crackly, toothsome, and charred in places, and dusted with flour, not so greasy. some cornmeal sticking to the bottom is also nice. I also think (don't know for a fact) a good pizza is usually transferred to and from the oven with a peel and baked right on the hot surface, rather than baked on a pan, like these guys do it. A good "eastern-style" crust shares many qualities with a good loaf of bread. The closest thing I can remember having here is the round bread from the Georgian Bakery (now if those guys made pizza!). to continue griping, when getting one delivered recently, we waited an hour and a half!! (we only live 6 blocks away!) and the pizza was luke-warm when it arrived. (I figure they're still getting their act together and will certainly give them another try.) all that being said, I liked this pizza as much as any pizza I've had in Chicago, but in quality I guess it's not much different from a decent "chicago-style" thin crust. Wed Jan 02 14:40:45 -0800 2002 594534 0 sc 6 594597 Yes on the Georgian Bakery. I am always torn when I go there, usually end up with a potato pastry to eat in the car, and one of the loaves (I like the weirdly shaped triangular one just because it's so weirdly shaped) and now I will try it with some fresh mozzarella, some tomato product of one kind or another, perhaps some fresh basil, wrapped in foil and heated through. It's not pizza, but it'll be good. Wed Jan 02 16:34:16 -0800 2002 594590 0 annieb 7 594601 jeez, we always end up with one of everything when we go there! those potato things are great. last time we stopped in, the hachapuris had just come out of the oven (those savory cheese pastries). oh, mama. lemme know how the pizza experiment works out (sounds kind of like a boboli!) Wed Jan 02 18:16:38 -0800 2002 594597 0 sc 8 594602 You know, Georgian Bakery is one of those kind of places that I WANT to like, especially with that big ol' oven in the middle of the floor, but more often than not, I find what ever I order to be a day past its flaky prime. Wierdly, several years ago, we were in Seatle, and we found the city dotted with russian bakeries. All of them serving items better than anything ever found at Georgian. I still wonder where the equivilant is in Chicago. rob Wed Jan 02 18:29:03 -0800 2002 594601 0 Vital Information 6 594625 Does anyone else do pizza at home? I just can't get the hang of throwing/stretching the dough. Sometimes I roll it and then stretch/toss and then let it sit to rise again, so it has some bubbles. But nothing to compare with the real deal. Any advice? Thu Jan 03 10:51:59 -0800 2002 594590 0 leek 7 594628 Alton Brown had a good, Good Eats on pizza. As usual, he did a good job of showing how to do it, it was kinda like driving a car. On the other hand, his dough recipe took like 2 days or rising, punching and re-rising. We made pizza on the grill this summer, you cook one side of the dough, then top and cook again, highly recommended. rg Thu Jan 03 11:05:58 -0800 2002 594625 0 Vital Information 8 594689 drving a car, so you sort of pull it around in a circle like your hands are on a car wheel, and the dough is oriented that way to you, not parallel to the ground? I'll give it a try. thanks Sat Jan 05 19:57:55 -0800 2002 594628 0 leek 1 594488 2004 W. Lawrence Ave. 773-784-5555 Sun Dec 23 11:50:20 -0800 2001 594462 0 Harry V. 1 594558 I would never have found this place without this board. For those of us that miss NY style pizza, this place is pretty good. It would just be an average place in NY, but oh it's so good to have a pizza without that cracker-style crust. It's a lot closer to NY style pizza than Piece is to NH style pizza. Mon Dec 31 01:15:09 -0800 2001 594462 0 DPZ 1 594571 Thanks for the excellent report. I stopped in the other day for a couple slices and liked, but didn’t love, it. I’d have to say it was the closest to NY pizza I’ve had in Chicago though. The crust tends in the right direction but I too would like it a bit thicker. I was thrilled to see those bubbles and blisters in the crust, a very good sign. The pieces I had were almost without sauce; just a little bit more would have helped a lot. I look forward to ordering a whole pie and trying to get them to customize it for me. I didn’t have time to chat but they seemed like good guys and I wish them well. I think their business might be pretty good. When I was there they were very behind on the dough and there was a 45 minute wait. I’m also very curious about what that Gotti pizza is. Anyone order it yet? Glad to hear you liked Vito & Nick’s. I’m not obsessed with the place but think they do an admirable job with the classic Chicago thin crust. I think you’re right about the lack of seasoning. This is one of the few places that I usually go for the pepperoni--often not my favorite--which helps a lot. Even though it’s not listed on the menu, they are certainly willing to put sliced fresh garlic on the pie (I think last time they didn’t even charge for it). Wed Jan 02 00:31:39 -0800 2002 594462 0 Rene G 2 594588 Agree that softer-style pizza crusts are more delectable when they are made a bit thicker than that served at New York Pizza. But I wonder how many people would be needed to eat a 20-inch pizza with a thick crust! And thanks for the Vito and Nick's tip - will certainly request garlic if we are ever down that way again. Wed Jan 02 13:26:55 -0800 2002 594571 0 Harry V. 1 594901 A friend and I have recently been around chicago on a quest for the holy new york slice (we are NY natives), and so upon hearing of NYP, the notion that the perfect new york slice could actually exist in chicago resurfaced again. I was very much dissapointed by NYP for many reasons: 1. The pizza was eh. The cheese to sauce ratio was entirely too high. I though this might have been a fluke, but upon reading other people's reviews I get the idea that they just might not use enough sauce on their pizzas. Also, the dough was too thin, and the crust not very New York like. 2. NYP is a closet. I went with three others to eat there and two of us had to stand. Also, the front of the storefront has a large window that traps in heat, even now, in the dead of winter. It is not very comfortable to have to stand while eating your piece and sweating. 3. NYP is clearly a drug-front. Now, i know this is quite a claim, but many toothless dirty men entered the store asking for "hector". He was not there. Many shady characters gathered outside the store, presumably to wait for "hector". For better pizza and hospitality try Gigios, Renaldi's or Cafe Luigi. Tue Jan 15 19:57:04 -0800 2002 594462 0 David G. 2 594910 Sorry you didn't like it. My recollections of pizza in New York were indeed of a thicker crust than that served at New York Pizza. As for NYP’s tiny size, you learned that I was not exaggerating when I said its space was equivalent to three telephone booths. I guess they figure they make up for that with the enormous size of their pizzas. The suggestion of NYP as a drug front is perplexing - all the more so when you specifically recommend Gigio's. As New York natives, you may not be aware that Gigio's is located on probably the very most unpleasant stretch of Broadway (just north of Wilson Ave.) in the heart of Uptown, which is probably the highest-crime area on the north side of Chicago other than Cabrini Green. A section of Wilson just west of Broadway is known locally as "Needle Alley" due to the large number of homeless junkies often to be found there, and the consequent litter of syringes and other devices for injecting drugs. In contrast, New York Pizza is in the nice, relatively safe, and far more pleasant neighborhood of Ravenswood (although its corner - Damen/Lawrence - is the least attractive in the neighborhood), which is not known for drug use or traffic. Unlike Uptown. Nevertheless your experience certainly does sound odd, and suspicious. I can only report that I saw no one that struck me as a shady character during my visit to NYP. That said, the suggestion of Gigio’s as a destination for hospitable service just makes me laugh, frankly. On my sole visit there I waited several minutes at the counter, with no other patrons in evidence, before one of the staff deigned to notice me. Nor was I actually spoken to; the counterman making expressionless eye contact with me was the entire signal for me to place my order. There was not even a nod after I spoke my order; the sole words spoken to me was the price I was to pay them. The service at Gigio’s was so insulting that I doubt I would return there even had it been the best pizza I’d ever tasted. Luckily there was no conflict in that regard, since the slice served to me was underseasoned, overcooked, and barely warm. Incidentally, Gigio’s pizza is no thicker than NYP’s, and has no more sauce on it, so I don’t know why those objections are raised against NYP but not Gigio’s. It is true that Gigio’s cooks their pizza distinctly longer than NYP, for those who like it that way, and Gigio’s also uses much, much better sausage. Wed Jan 16 13:36:33 -0800 2002 594901 0 Harry V.