10411 Wed Nov 21 11:42:59 -0800 2001 21 4 Pacific Northwest 0 11935 We're doing a lunch for the folks at work and we are an eclectic group. A few of us are into fancy places, a few are chowhounds, and a few of us are into meat and potatoes. Add to that we have a vegitarian who doesn't like "foo foo" stuff i.e. goat cheese etc. And we want a full bar. We've often done Pan-Asian - either Wild Ginger or Dragonfish but we wanted something different this time. My first thought was Italian and I got menus for Pink Door, Tulios and Il Terrazzo. But there isn't a whole lot for the simpler-food folks. Someone suggested Gordon Biersch. Thier menu offers the variety I need but I'm not too sure of the quality. Any opinions would be welcome. Thanks. Wed Nov 21 11:42:59 -0800 2001 0 Mary Ayres 1 11937 I've always thought that Gordon Biersch was way over-priced. I think a good bet is Icon Grill, or Palace Kitchen. Both have the approachable items for the (boring) simpler eaters' tastes, and then, especially PK, there's something for those who'd like to try something more daring... Wed Nov 21 14:09:28 -0800 2001 11935 0 sonja 2 11938 I'd second the vote for Icon Grill - especially since we don't know how much longer they'll be around. They filed for Chapter 7 (liquidation) Bankruptcy, and have been acquired by the Applebee's folks. Wed Nov 21 14:49:58 -0800 2001 11937 0 Retro 3 11939 While I really appreciate the feedback on other options, I've been asked by my boss to find out how the food is at Gordon Biersch. I'm less interested in whether or not it's a good value than I am if the food is decent. Thanks - I hate to sound like a broken record and I really do appreciate your help. Makes me want to go to the Icon Grill on my own before they disappear. Mary Wed Nov 21 16:06:40 -0800 2001 11938 0 Mary Ayres 4 11940 Someone on egullet.com mentioned that they really like the garlic fries at Gordon Biersch. Wed Nov 21 19:43:19 -0800 2001 11939 0 Leslie 5 11942 The garlic fries were good. The mashed potatoes and chicken were good too. The chinois chicken salad was way over salty, though. It has atmosphere and probably enough variety to satisfy your group. Thu Nov 22 00:17:56 -0800 2001 11940 0 Paulette 6 11945 shame! this place wouldn't be frequented by any true seattle chowhound! chain, swingle, mall joint? please! breweries? check out pike place, elysian on capitol hill. great shops like icon, marco's supperclub, palace, virginia inn have something for everyone, and are owned be real local people and are run like it. Fri Nov 23 01:50:36 -0800 2001 11942 0 thefluid 7 11948 Gordon Biersch is a chain, and it's very much the Olive Garden/TGIFridays concept applied to the brewpub genre. I obviously haven't been to every single location, and I haven't tried the garlic fries, but it's important to bear in mind that that's what these guys are about. Fri Nov 23 13:58:02 -0800 2001 11945 0 Jim Leff 7 12003 Well, Mary specifically pointed out that he was not interested in hearing about alternatives to GB, just if there was anything worthwhile there. If Mary hadn't specified that she wasn't looking for better options than GB, I would gladly have shared my thoughts on that one. Personally, it wouldn't be my first choice either, nor my second or third, but as a party spot for an office gathering, it has the atmosphere and beer. Thu Nov 29 18:38:21 -0800 2001 11945 0 Paulette 4 11957 Okay, I've been to Gordon Biersch, but only once. The portions are huge (American-huge), and the food is decent, but only that. The beer is pure, unadulterated crap. Ptui. Plech. The service was apathetic at best (okay, I was there one time on a Friday evening, so sue me.) So, if you're looking for heaps of mediocre food and really awful beer, Gordon Biersch will fit the bill. For something in a similar vein, but with fantastic beer and good food, try a McMeniman's pub. The closest to downtown (I think) is over by the Seattle Center. There is more than one McMenimans (in WA and OR), but they don't feel like links in a chain. Beth (who really objects to the whole concept of a chain micro-brew - a contradiction in terms) Tue Nov 27 18:51:19 -0800 2001 11939 0 Beth Soch 5 11965 I'll have to pass your criticism of GB's beer along to Dan Gordon, who has brewing credentials from Weihenstephan in Germany. But first, perhaps you could be more specific. In my experience (a McM's pub in Seattle), McMenamin's wasn't making amazing beer, but they compensated with funky ambience. It's really hard to compare beer from these two chains, as their styles are radically different. Wed Nov 28 06:41:03 -0800 2001 11957 0 Jim Dorsch 6 11984 Well, excuuuuuuuse me. Far be it for me to criticize someone who's studied in Germany! I've changed my mind - I love the beer there! (rolling my eyes) Come on. Just because he studied there doesn't mean he didn't come back to America and modify what he learned to suit the vast majority of the American "Coors Lite" palate. I went to this restaurant with a large group of beer-drinkin' friends (some of whom homebrew as well). We ordered a variety of beers and were left flat (pun unintended). No perfume in the amber, the IPA not hoppy enough, an uninteresting porter or stout (it's been a while, I can't remember specifically), the pale ale indestinguishable from (ick, pfeh) Coors Lite. Believe me, we wanted to like the place. It tasted like "chain" beer - brewed to suit the masses. As for McM's, their Nitro tap porter is a very, very good beer. If I were recommending a local brewery, I'd probably go for Big Top in the U District first. However, the original question was about G. Biersch and food. Big Top is not known for its food, and for good reason. The La Conner Brewery has lovely beer and great food, but it's in La Conner. So, my local recommendation was McM's. And I stand by it. Beth Wed Nov 28 21:19:35 -0800 2001 11965 0 Beth Soch 7 11987 To my knowledge, Gordon Biersch doesn't brew pale ale, IPA, porter or stout. Thu Nov 29 08:07:15 -0800 2001 11984 0 Jim Dorsch 7 11991 I'm certain that Gordon Biersch doesn't brew any ales at all, which would negate all you said about the IPA/porter/stout/amber, etc. I'm sure they only brew German style lagers: pilsners, dunkles and bocks. Check their website if you don't trust me Link: http://www.gordonbiersch.com/beer/index.html Thu Nov 29 13:50:56 -0800 2001 11984 0 Becky McNabb 8 11993 This doesn't change the fact that I didn't like their beers! Do either of you like their beers? Are you just making a point of my poor memory? The website refreshed my memory. Their bock was weak (I'd have pegged it as a pilsner, not dark enough, no subtle flavors), the dunkel was taste-free (I expect some measure of coffee or chocolate overtones - got nothing). Quite unremarkable. The overwhelming impression among the group of friends was that they'd created beer for the masses. Which is fine, if you like that beer, but not if you're expecting something interesting. To reiterate, I was there only once, about 3 years ago. I have never been back, and don't intend to go back because I did not like their beer. Beth Thu Nov 29 15:13:20 -0800 2001 11991 0 Beth Soch 9 11996 Some Gordon Biersch beers I liked (winter bock), some I didn't (blonde bock), which is what I can say about most of the many local brewpubs I often frequent, including Six Arms and Dad Watson's of the McM chain. Some beer I like, some I don't. I do try to stay away from blanket statements because in my experience, just about every brewery or restaurant has something decent to offer, even the chains like Rock Bottom or Gordon Biersch. I certainly wouldn't dismiss them after only one cursory visit. And because the chains usually are well priced, you don't really have to limit to one visit as several visits are affordable. At most brewpubs, samplers (small pours) are available. Go back and try them three or four times. Then give us your educated opinion. A final note: if you're going to flat out pan a brewery or a restaurant for its beer or food, at least do so with some nod toward accuracy. If you're going to blast, go all out and blast them well and at least sound like you know what you're talking about. That's all. Thu Nov 29 15:47:38 -0800 2001 11993 0 Becky McNabb 5 11974 Gotta disagree with you about the food at McMenamin's--I've only been a few times, but the food I had ranged from decent to awful. The cider was great, though. (The apple-juice cider, not the hard cider.) Wed Nov 28 17:09:34 -0800 2001 11957 0 Karl B 5 11990 I live in Portland and so have been around McM's for quite a while. I find that their darker beers (Terminator Stout, Hammerhead) are fine but their lighter beers are very inconsistent - one day pretty tasty, the next day watered down blecccch. My problem with McM's is that they charge way too much for a pitcher of beer (around $7) when I know it costs them pennies to make. But they have done some great renovations down here and really tried hard to turn abandoned junk into neighborhood gems. So they get extra credit for that. Their food - just okay in my mind but I concur on funky ambience. Thu Nov 29 12:56:23 -0800 2001 11957 0 Amy B 6 12012 It's true in a sense that it's really cheap to make beer and sell it for $7 a pitcher, but they are investing in a manufacturing facility (i.e., a brewery), and renting commercial real estate, and paying a brewer. I believe restaurants use a rule of pricing food at 3 times cost (Deven or whoever can correct me on this), so you could say the food is overpriced as well. Fri Nov 30 07:21:57 -0800 2001 11990 0 Jim Dorsch 7 12013 If we thought we could price food at five times cost and get away with it we would! Restaurant food pricing is both art and science, applied to varying degrees as the skill of the operator or market forces demand. While an average of three times cost is a good one for most restaurants, any individual dish may be priced anywhere from two to 20 times cost. The real key is perceived, not real, value. As an example let my cite Starbuck's, which sells its coffee for something between ten and twenty times cost. Many people do not find this unreasonable, yet would complain bitterly if a restaurant tried to use the same multiplier when pricing their steak. Fri Nov 30 10:12:45 -0800 2001 12012 0 Deven Black 7 12039 Jim, I hear you about all those costs and McMenamins does such great renovation work I can't argue with them trying to make money. But why pay $7 for inconsistent beer when I can get a really good imported or craft beer for the same price - I would think they could cut the price a little to entice you to try their special brews. But I am definitely in the minority - McMenamins has a loyal following. It's just one of the factors I take into account when deciding where to go... Jim I appreciate your musings on beer on the Chowhound board (PNW and elsewhere) - thank you. Mon Dec 03 11:16:01 -0800 2001 12012 0 Amy B 8 12052 Hey, I'm always happy to talk about beer! Regarding quality & consistency of beer, price and ambience, I'm willilng to put up with some inconsistency if the beer is basically to my liking and the ambience is right. I have to tell you that I can't stand some of the brewpubs (and beer bars) that are so loud that one can't hold a conversation. Maybe it's an age thing! Mon Dec 03 20:20:29 -0800 2001 12039 0 Jim Dorsch